Pros and cons of fluting barrel

crazydave said:
One major flaw to your logic which you don't seem to understand and can't seem to grasp is one you outline yourself in this post of yours.

If you take two barrels of the same OD and flute one of them there is now thinner metal on parts of the barrel.

These parts will dissipate heat quicker fore sure, but they will also heat quicker! and with the metal being thinner in these areas will distort quicker.

For a hunting rifle the only difference you will see with fluting is a loss in weight period!

Also if fired quickly in succession the thinner parts will expand more causing looser tolerences with the bullet than the thicker steel parts, THIS ALMOST ALWAYS CAUSES A LOSS IN ACCURACY AS IS EXPECTED.

If you like the looks of a fluted rifle and saving a couple ounces of weight tickles your fancy then flute your barrel by all means.

If you think it will make your rifle more accurate give your head a shake:rolleyes:
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You are wrong... The fact that fluting causes the barrel to heat up quicker is absolutely irrelevant if it cools it off prior to the next shot... You don't see a lot of semi auto fluted rifles do you?
 
Superbrad said:
You are wrong... The fact that fluting causes the barrel to heat up quicker is absolutely irrelevant if it cools it off prior to the next shot... You don't see a lot of semi auto fluted rifles do you?
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So let me guess, when you are out hunting and need a follow up shot you kindly ask the animal to wait for how long for a follow up shot? :p

The difference in cooling time is minute at best, the difference in accuracy when needed should be what matters.

Firing off a five shot string with 2 barrels the same OD the fluted barrel may cool 20 seconds before the unfluted. But the accuracy will suck!
 
Superbrad said:
You are wrong... The fact that fluting causes the barrel to heat up quicker is absolutely irrelevant if it cools it off prior to the next shot... You don't see a lot of semi auto fluted rifles do you?
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Your grasp of physics is weak. Cooling time has more to do with ambient temperature, heat lost equals heat gained. "if it cools off before the next shot". If it cools off doesn't matter, the smaller volume of steel (the fluted barrel) is more affected by heat in all ways. A good analogy is to clamp a chunk of steel in a big vice then heat it with a torch. Which thing turns plastic the vice or the chunk of steel? By the time you get the vice to turn plastic the chunk of steel would be molten.
 
mg4201 said:
Your grasp of physics is weak. Cooling time has more to do with ambient temperature, heat lost equals heat gained. "if it cools off before the next shot". If it cools off doesn't matter, the smaller volume of steel (the fluted barrel) is more affected by heat in all ways. A good analogy is to clamp a chunk of steel in a big vice then heat it with a torch. Which thing turns plastic the vice or the chunk of steel? By the time you get the vice to turn plastic the chunk of steel would be molten.
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No... The difference in volume is minimal... Fluting works because the increase in surface area for heat dissipation far outweighs the benefits of the volume of metal removed...
 
crazydave said:
So let me guess, when you are out hunting and need a follow up shot you kindly ask the animal to wait for how long for a follow up shot? :p

The difference in cooling time is minute at best, the difference in accuracy when needed should be what matters.

Firing off a five shot string with 2 barrels the same OD the fluted barrel may cool 20 seconds before the unfluted. But the accuracy will suck!
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Where do you get this theory from?... 5 shots? 20 seconds?... Obviously since you are throwing numbers around you have tried this with 2 identical rifles one fluted one not?

I would love to see your results that fly in the face of what many reputable gun makers with 100's of years of experience tell us...
 
To Flute or Not to Flute

Um, any ideas how to un-flute barrels? Seems five of the suckers crawled into my collection. Even worse, I'm ashamed to admit, four were ordered by me for custom builds. When shooting buddies come over I hide the "flutes" in a closet.
 
Superbrad said:
No... The difference in volume is minimal... Fluting works because the increase in surface area for heat dissipation far outweighs the benefits of the volume of metal removed...
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Take your Bic lighter to a piece of tin foil and see how fast it gets hot, then try the same thing with a piece of thicker metal. I think you will rapidly discover the idea of why most of us who are all about accuracy tend NOT to fruit a barrel.
The marginal gains in surface area are greatly out weighed by the FACT that the thinner portions of the barrel heat up much faster than the the areas of the barrel that have not been milled away. More importantly the non fruited barrel will heat up evenly hence deflect evenly and predictably, something a barrel that is machined to death, commonly not will not do.

If machining the barrel to death with fruits was of any real benefit I would think 1 would see much more of the top winning target and BR shooters doing it, these are the guys who will do anything for accuracy or an edge on the competition.

Looking cool does not really equate to making it cool.:eek:
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Take your Bic lighter to a piece of tin foil and see how fast it gets hot, then try the same thing with a piece of thicker metal. I think you will rapidly discover the idea of why most of us who are all about accuracy tend NOT to fruit a barrel.
The marginal gains in surface area are greatly out weighed by the FACT that the thinner portions of the barrel heat up much faster than the the areas of the barrel that have not been milled away. More importantly the non fruited barrel will heat up evenly hence deflect evenly and predictably, something a barrel that is machined to death, commonly not will not do.

If machining the barrel to death with fruits was of any real benefit I would think 1 would see much more of the top winning target and BR shooters doing it, these are the guys who will do anything for accuracy or an edge on the competition.

Looking cool does not really equate to making it cool.:eek:
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With all those fruits mentioned I realised I skipped my breakfast!
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
Take your Bic lighter to a piece of tin foil and see how fast it gets hot, then try the same thing with a piece of thicker metal. I think you will rapidly discover the idea of why most of us who are all about accuracy tend NOT to fruit a barrel.
The marginal gains in surface area are greatly out weighed by the FACT that the thinner portions of the barrel heat up much faster than the the areas of the barrel that have not been milled away. More importantly the non fruited barrel will heat up evenly hence deflect evenly and predictably, something a barrel that is machined to death, commonly not will not do.

If machining the barrel to death with fruits was of any real benefit I would think 1 would see much more of the top winning target and BR shooters doing it, these are the guys who will do anything for accuracy or an edge on the competition.

Looking cool does not really equate to making it cool.:eek:
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OK... after taking your lighter to that piece of foil and the piece of thicker metal wait a few seconds..... which would you now prefer to pick up with your bare hands?...

BR shooters who want accuracy use big heavy barreled rifles... if you have the time to wait between shots and don't have to haul your rifle for miles when searching for game this is a viable option....
 
Superbrad said:
Where do you get this theory from?... 5 shots? 20 seconds?... Obviously since you are throwing numbers around you have tried this with 2 identical rifles one fluted one not?

I would love to see your results that fly in the face of what many reputable gun makers with 100's of years of experience tell us...
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If you believe everything you here man do i have a deal for you, a bridge in the states you have heard of perhaps. :p

Also i have tried fluted barrels of sporter rifles versus standard barrels :rolleyes:

Again i will ask, how long do you ask a animal to wait for your barrel to cool?

Now from experience working with metal, heat and tolerence's, and learning from people who have generations of experience in the real world doing so, i can tell you that whoever gave you this mythical idea is full of crap.

The fact of the matter is simple, if you remove material structure is weaker!

look at winch cable for instance, why is it that a 3000lb winch uses 1/4 cable but a 4000lb uses 5/16?

simple answer 1/4 don't cut it strain wise.

Now if you want to go on with thinking fluteing will help accuracy on your rifles then go for it, but please don't pass on incorrect information to others, some poor guy with no knowledge on the matter may wreck a pretty accurate rifle:eek:
 
crazydave said:
If you believe everything you here man do i have a deal for you, a bridge in the states you have heard of perhaps. :p

Also i have tried fluted barrels of sporter rifles versus standard barrels :rolleyes:

Again i will ask, how long do you ask a animal to wait for your barrel to cool?

Now from experience working with metal, heat and tolerence's, and learning from people who have generations of experience in the real world doing so, i can tell you that whoever gave you this mythical idea is full of crap.

The fact of the matter is simple, if you remove material structure is weaker!

look at winch cable for instance, why is it that a 3000lb winch uses 1/4 cable but a 4000lb uses 5/16?

simple answer 1/4 don't cut it strain wise.

Now if you want to go on with thinking fluteing will help accuracy on your rifles then go for it, but please don't pass on incorrect information to others, some poor guy with no knowledge on the matter may wreck a pretty accurate rifle:eek:
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How long do I ask an animal to wait fo rbarrel cooling... I don't... which is why I want a barrel that cools as quickly as possible so I don't have to....

I can't even begin to tell you how much is wrong with what you just wrote here....

Winch cables?.... comparing a gun barrel to something used for tangential force?....

Removing material makes structire weaker?.... Buckminster Fuller must be rolling over in his grave....

But hey, I am just an engineer, what the hell do I know?.....
 
Superbrad said:
How long do I ask an animal to wait fo rbarrel cooling... I don't... which is why I want a barrel that cools as quickly as possible so I don't have to....

I can't even begin to tell you how much is wrong with what you just wrote here....

Winch cables?.... comparing a gun barrel to something used for tangential force?....

Removing material makes structire weaker?.... Buckminster Fuller must be rolling over in his grave....

But hey, I am just an engineer, what the hell do I know?.....
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Obviously you just like to argue, many with experience have tried to expain it to you, but you fail to look at the matter with a open mind.

Won't bother trying to get the point across any more, reminds me of a saying about a horse and water:confused:
 
mlehtovaara said:
My understanding of the subject:

Pro - Cools faster, lose some weight

Con - Barrel loses some rigidity

My opinion - A rigid barrel is more important unless you are firing multiple shots in quick succession. A varmint gun may benefit from fluting, but if your shooting slow fire bench rest type stuff I would not bother with flutes.

All depends on application.
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There.... this is likely the most accurate post in this thread......
 
Originally Posted by mlehtovaara
My opinion - A rigid barrel is more important unless you are firing multiple shots in quick succession. A varmint gun may benefit from fluting, but if your shooting slow fire bench rest type stuff I would not bother with flutes.
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Superbrad said:
There.... this is likely the most accurate post in this thread......
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I'm glad you see the logic in that. Note the enhanced words. So his opinion and possibility is the most accurate post.
I am stunned.
 
Superbrad said:
OK... after taking your lighter to that piece of foil and the piece of thicker metal wait a few seconds..... which would you now prefer to pick up with your bare hands?...

BR shooters who want accuracy use big heavy barreled rifles... if you have the time to wait between shots and don't have to haul your rifle for miles when searching for game this is a viable option....
Click to expand...

The thicker one, its greater ability to absorb heat means it never got as hot as the tinfoil
 
Superbrad said:
How long do I ask an animal to wait fo rbarrel cooling... I don't... which is why I want a barrel that cools as quickly as possible so I don't have to....

I can't even begin to tell you how much is wrong with what you just wrote here....

Winch cables?.... comparing a gun barrel to something used for tangential force?....

Removing material makes structire weaker?.... Buckminster Fuller must be rolling over in his grave....

But hey, I am just an engineer, what the hell do I know?.....
Click to expand...

In my experience the engineer that fails to listen to the tradesman falls flat on his a$$. Give your "sharp reminder" a rub when you forget that.
 
Superbrad said:
Thanks for beaking off.. do you have PERSONAL EXPERIENCE that can dissprove his and my theory?..... as well as what the many reputable gunmakers advertise?....
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Beaking off? That's a new one to me.
First of all, I think it's amusing how important this theory is to you.
Secondly, neither you or the other poster has solid concrete evidence.
You say you're an engineer, well prove a theory and make it a fact, not opinion or a maybe.
Prove to me fluting is worth the cost and justifiable as an aid to accuracy and barrel cooling in a rifle barrel.
I'm open to facts, not theories.
Thirdly, which reputable gunmakers? I would like names and solid scientific evidence if possible.
 
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