Question about AR15 being made full auto
- Thread starter JRW (QOR)
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
The difference between an M16 and commercial bolt carrier is that the former has a ledge on the underside that is capable of tripping the auto sear. M16 carriers are actually commonplace nowadays on better quality AR-15 type rifles, as the extra mass is considered beneficial from a reliability and durability standpoint.
A select fire lower with an upper containing an AR-15 bolt carrier will not produce automatic fire, as there is nothing to trip the auto sear. A lower without auto sear and select fire FCG parts may or may not function in automatic fire, as the hammer will follow the bolt carrier forward and may or may not strike the firing pin with enough force to ignite the primer.
Great info.
One added piece of info.
I have seen pictures (biggerhammer?) of a little block of steel that inserts into the tail of a S/A bolt carrier and locks in place with a set screw that allows an auto sear to be tripped. I assume it was used along with a DIAS (drop-in auto sear).
So a S/A carrier could, in fact, be used in a F/A manner. Of course you still would need a DIAS and all the other select-fire parts.
I have seen pictures (biggerhammer?) of a little block of steel that inserts into the tail of a S/A bolt carrier and locks in place with a set screw that allows an auto sear to be tripped. I assume it was used along with a DIAS (drop-in auto sear).
So a S/A carrier could, in fact, be used in a F/A manner. Of course you still would need a DIAS and all the other select-fire parts.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
DIAS (and an FA bolt) should be all that's needed, of course it wouldn't be select fire, just safe/FA. No?
It the case of swapping the lower.
It's more like making a VW go as fast as a Ferrari, by getting into a Ferrari.
Nothing has been converted.
AlbertaGunslinger
Regular
- Location
- The Wide Open Prairie
John Browning converted a lever gun to full auto. Any person with some power tools an a brain could convert most semi's, including AR-15s, to full auto. To answer the original question yes you can slap an AR15 upper with a M16 BCG onto a select fire lower and it will fire full auto.
So anyway back to "the AR15 would be banned if you could convert it to FA" you must understand the defenition of "easily convertable" and why the RCMP decisions recently on the subject matter are bogus because classing something as a prohib because it can accept full auto parts is BS. There are plenty of ARs out there that are not prohibs that could accept a "lightning link", that is because the "lightning link" is a FA part and is a prohibited device, and as a result is not easy to obtain and therefore I cannot easily use a "lightning link" to convert an AR. Now if you apply that to the SCAR, as far as I know SCAR FA parts are also prohibited and not at all easy to get, therefore the SCAR is not easily convertable and the ruling is BS.
Really the whole "easily convertable" thing is BS in the first place, so no point in ranting anymore.
So anyway back to "the AR15 would be banned if you could convert it to FA" you must understand the defenition of "easily convertable" and why the RCMP decisions recently on the subject matter are bogus because classing something as a prohib because it can accept full auto parts is BS. There are plenty of ARs out there that are not prohibs that could accept a "lightning link", that is because the "lightning link" is a FA part and is a prohibited device, and as a result is not easy to obtain and therefore I cannot easily use a "lightning link" to convert an AR. Now if you apply that to the SCAR, as far as I know SCAR FA parts are also prohibited and not at all easy to get, therefore the SCAR is not easily convertable and the ruling is BS.
Really the whole "easily convertable" thing is BS in the first place, so no point in ranting anymore.
No.
You still need a F/A selector, otherwise it will only go into the Safe and S/A position.
And if you did have a F/A selector, you would still need the F/A disconnector otherwise there would be no tang for the selector to hold the disconnector back.
And if you did have the F/A disconnector, you need the F/A trigger otherwise the disconnector wouldn't be able to stick out the back of the trigger because the S/A trigger doesn't have the slot milled through.
And then you would still need the F/A hammer because it has the hook that catches the auto-sear.
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It still needs the m16 hammer and disconnector to work. The Dias is just a little self contained sear unit, instead of mounting the sear directly onto the lower.
It is not a magical box that makes ar15 go FA. Because it is a drop in, it has to be put at the right spot or there will be timing issue with the hammer.
DOH... The lower is the gun.. an M4 lower has an auto sear and could be fully auto... Now using the upper without a full auto carrier will prevent it from going full auto.. But swap in a full auto bolt and you should be able to melt a AR-15 UPPER however.. If I put a corevtte drivetrain in a pinto it will go faster..
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
To make lighting link work, the upper must have one of those old commercial Colt SP1 bolt carriers with just a little bit of metal at the end. They are definitely not "plenty" in Canada at all.
The concept of lighting link does not work with FA bolt carrier, non-colt commercial carrier or the older Colt half moon commercial carrier.
In order words, you cannot just drop a lighting link into any AR and make it go FA.
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Of sourse you can make an "AR-15" full-auto by using an M4 lower. The argument is moot since getting an M4 lower is not going to happen and it wouldn't be an AR-15 but an M4.
There is no easy conversion possible. You need an entire FA fire control group and selector, drill out the lower so it accepts it along with the auto sear.
Not happening.
The question here is how someone so retarded is allowed to vote.
There is no easy conversion possible. You need an entire FA fire control group and selector, drill out the lower so it accepts it along with the auto sear.
Not happening.
The question here is how someone so retarded is allowed to vote.
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That is absolutely true. tests conducted during the Vietnam war by US forces proved that in an assault rifle (m16a1) aimed semi auto was many times more effective than automatic fire. A trained shooter firing aimed single shots is lethal. Some yahoo shooting full auto from the hip, not so much.
I believe others have made it pretty clear; this is a really weird way of looking at things and is technically incorrect.
Technically in Canada and the USA the lower of an AR-15/M4 type rifle is the firearm. Thus an AR-15 is semi auto and a M4 is select fire, by definition. The lower would be the controlled/registered component, everything else is just parts. For instance, in Canada, without a licence, you can own and posses every part of an AR-15 except for the actual piece of aluminum that is the lower. That piece of aluminum is restricted an requires a restricted PAL.
So, yes, he is kinda right, by “simply” acquiring the controlled M4 lower, which is prohibited in Canada or is required to be registered with the ATF in the USA, one could “simply” take an upper with a F/A BCG and put it on the M4 lower.
In the physical sense of mating the components together it is as easy as pushing the 2 pins in. In the legal sense of acquiring all of the correct components (or making them), it isn’t very simple and if not done correctly it should result in a lot of butt hurt, if you get my drift.
This... again.
The whole philosophy that the anti's have in attacking the FA aspect, however implausible, is also very indicative of vast oceans of ignorance. Well aimed semi-auto, pump,lever or bolt action fire is far more likely to cause casualty count. It's a baseless argument that relies purely on supposition, ignorance and sensationalizing the silly notion that you can simply convert an AR to a full auto firearm with little difficulty.
Fact of the matter is that bad people will do bad things if there are no good people to prevent them from doing so. Look at history. How do you stop a person or group of people that are doing something wrong from continuing to do so? You take decisive action and stand up for what is right. Look at the anti-bullying campaign that is active today. It relies on people being willing and able to stand up to a bully. Not cowering and calling the police.
There are many many examples through history that show a group of people doing something wrong and this continues until someone is no longer willing to allow them to continue. Think of the Barbary Pirates. Many countries paid them tribute in order to protect their fleets and charters from piracy and slave raiding. When the United States declared independence from Britain the united states fell out from under the protection of the tribute that Britain paid. This lead to the united states paying massive tribute of their own until they were no longer willing to continue under this persecution. This was largely the reason for the creation of the US Navy. Under strong guidance from a founding father that actually had the best interests of the nation in mind they stood up to the Barbary pirates and took decisive action leading to a systematic breakdown of the power that the pirates held. It is the willingness to stand up and fight that was truly the only way to destroy the power that the Barbary pirates held over the seas in those days.
Now today people like Obama call out that it's time to do something about these tragedies. It has been proven time and time again throughout history that there is only one effective way to combat people willing to engage in these types of heinous acts. People need to be willing to fight back. People have to know that they will not be able to get away with what they are planning because any citizen will be able to oppose them and likely many more than one. If people think that war does not exist any longer or that the United states will not be attacked ever again I believe that they are wrong in a most horrible sort of way. Continuing to think that criminals will abide by any form of legislation to limit access to firearms is blatantly ignorant and only creates a society completely open and vulnerable to any sort of attack from anyone willing to disobey a law. Reality check folks...
Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -George Santayana
andrew3081
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
An army weapon tech once told me that scar is easily converted into full auto.
You sure know your ar15.
Almost.
You also need a F/A trigger so the F/A disconnector tail can sit low enough and you need a F/A selector with the slot for the disconnector extension.
This is what I would consider the comprehensive list for safe full-auto fire (as opposed to un-safe slam-fire which is a malfunction, not a "setting"):
1) F/A lower machined for an auto-sear or machined to accept a DIAS.
2) Full-auto style bolt carrier. All bolts and firing pins are the same, only the carrier differs.
3) M16 hammer
4) M16 trigger
5) M16 disconnector
6) M16 selector
7) F/A sear and sear pin, or a DIAS unit
In Canada, you can legally install all the above items except for Numbers 1 and 7, but note that installing numbers 3, 4, 5 and 6 at the same time without also installing numbers 1,2 and 7 will result in slam-firing that may simulate full-auto in some guns, but more likely will result in an out of battery explosion and injure the shooter.
This part is incorrect. The Ar15 cannot fire out of battery (unless of course you have a broken firing pin or severely out of spec parts).
The firing pin on an Ar15/M4/M16 will not protrude from the bolt face until the bolt lugs have rotated enough to engage the barrel extension. This is part of the design of an Ar15/M4/M16
Slam firing is possible but usually if the hammer rides the carrier back, there is not enough force to ignite the primer. This, obviously, is dependent on the sensitivity of the primer.
There are also two different types of firing pins; large diameter and small diameter, but IIRC the purpose of the small diameter pin is to catch in the notch in S/A style (non full face) hammers........either that or its the other way around and the large diameter that will get caught in the hammer (can't remember off-hand). Regardless, if you have a F/A lower, either pin will work.
