RDB now that the X95 is near impossible to find?

I Dont Care About You said:
I am not overly familiar with the X95 bolt and firing pin relationship but I would be SHOCKED if the Israeli army adopted a rifle that did not occlude the firing pin prior to full bolt lockup. I cannot imagine that any modern rifle would be designed in a way that would allow the firing pin to protrude before the bolt carrier was fully home.

The vast majority of people who claim OOB have no clue what OOB actually means and how these rifles work. I am sceptical any time someone claims an OOB.
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That is true that most modern rifles (not counting blow-back PCCs) are equipped with safety features, that includes military accepted rifles like X95 and boutique firearm like RDB. However things happen. And the irony to the post I quoted that I know about X95 detonations and don't know about RDB detonations. Owned and been following both platforms closely, so I assume I would have known if such things happened to RDB.

www. reddit.com/r/Tavor/comments/vmf438/semi_catastrophic_failure/
 
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Horilka said:
That is true that most modern rifle (not counting blow-back PCCs) are equipped with safety features, that includes military accepted rifles like X95 and boutique firearm like RDB. However things happen. And the irony to the post I quoted that I know about X95 detonations and don't know about RDB detonations. Owned and been following both platforms closely, so I assume I would have known if such things happened to RDB.

www. reddit.com/r/Tavor/comments/vmf438/semi_catastrophic_failure/
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The detonation for x95 that you linked seem to be caused by bad ammunition. So that means it can happen to any gun.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
Any chances we are going to get the Springfield Hellion in Canada at any point?
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Doubt it? Coincidentally I was looking yesterday on Armalytics and can't find an FRT entry for it and with the way things have been not sure what the backlog is like for new entries. There is prohib entries for the original VHS rifles the Helion is marketed from
 
I Dont Care About You said:
The CDN X95 have to be specially made for us because of the barrel length requirements here. X95 for the US market have 16" barrels.

Have you watched any of the combat footage out of Gaza? There are loads of X95 in those videos.

A T97 is a non-starter for me as I am a lefty. Also not a fan of commie rifles. They are typically not overall good quality .... I've owned a few in the past.
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No, there are 18.6 inch barrel versions available in the US. Irunguns is bringing them in. Just google it, they are there.
 
Jarvy said:
My guess would be user error (like someone experiencing a hangfire and trying to rack the round out when it went off)
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andrew3081 said:
The detonation for x95 that you linked seem to be caused by bad ammunition. So that means it can happen to any gun.
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My bet would be on a split case. Over billions of rounds, there will be the odd bad one. These things happen. And as noted, have nothing to do with the rifle itself.

With respect to the notion that these things happen to the X95 but not to the RDB, there are way more X95 on the market than RDB, which means more opportunity for a bad round to occur in the X95 than the RDB. There are loads of factors governing how or if we hear about a problem in a specific rifle. That we hear about an event with one rifle and not another does not mean that kind of event doesn't happen in the other rifle.
 
Horilka said:
Good joke about blowing up. There was at least one X95 that blew up a year ago in Canada, in BC because of OOBD and how many RDBs, eh? Quality of components and manufacturing doesn't not always translates to quality of design and to safety.
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Almost all OOBDs are a sticky firing pin staying forward and igniting the primer when the round pushed back on the feed ramps, user skill issue, not the guns fault, any more slop in the firing pin would add faster wear that consumers would complain about,

Bad primers are also a potential cause but that's out of our hands, all we can do is buy quality manufacturers ammo.
The keltecs are known for blowing up because they're cheap low quality plastic builds. the SUB2k is the most common of them, buffer tubes disintegrating into jaws kinda stuff.

If my car breaks tire falls apart from the heat from a burnout, that's my fault, if my tire disintegrates driving down the highway that's a tire fault :rolleyes:
 
fritzhanzel said:
They are just coming from the States now. The X95 is also not the preferred rifle for the IDF, so I never expected them to be "rare". The US issued an export stop for US produced AR to Israel but I don't expect this to last forever, maybe it is already revoked.

It is not that desirable in my opinion, it is a bullpup. A T97 shoots better and is more reliable. Please don't say "safety". One reason that there is not much hype around the T97 is the fact that they are not available in the US.

I would not buy a Kel-Tec, also keep in mind that their warranty is shaky at best.
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Said like a true Type 97 owner,
T97s are garbage, 4 moa off a led sled at best. I sold mine three days after owning it, the best way to compare it to is a gen1 Kodiak wk180.
Even if the Americans got the type 97, they wouldn't buy one, a x95 costs 1300$ in some American states.
We pay the premium for the NR tax, and the fact that they have to build 18.6 barreled assemblies just for us.


The IDF does have X95s and tar 21s (so does India, Angola, Ukraine, Thailand, and many European forces)
They are issued multiple other rifles, Galils, old FNs, Surplus Cols that were sent over/left after the gulf war, M16s etc.
The X95 is one of their service rifles, it is not the only available service rifle.

Distribution and spread of who gets what just depends on what the detachment was provided supplied
 
So much BS.

And sorry no, you are wrong just like the other guy, they do offer the X95 in 18.6 in the US.

But better post first without knowing. The T97 is more accurate than the X95. I doubt you ever owned one. But of course if you spend 3K on gun, it has to be good. But I know it must be fun spending money to make a gun accurate.

In general I am not a fan of bull pups, you are comparing the T97 to the WK180? Send some of the stuff over you are smoking please.

I never said that the IDF does not have X95.
 
fritzhanzel said:
The T97 is more accurate than the X95.
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What kind of groups are you getting?

I own both, and I find their accuracy comparable with bulk ammo, HOWEVER the T97's POI shifts drastically if you swap between different brands of, say, M193, while the X95 is much more consistent. For example, when I swapped from Federal M193 to Independence to PMC XTAC, I had to re-zero my T97 every time (about 5-6" off target, which would sometimes put me off-paper), while the X95 was only off by about an inch at most. I also find the T97's accuracy to be significantly affected by weather conditions and other quirky factors. (Don't even get me started about it's lock time)

I like my T97 a lot, awesome budget option I wouldn't hesitate to recommend. But it's a budget option, and the X95 is a better rifle by nearly every metric.
 
Jarvy said:
What kind of groups are you getting?

I own both, and I find their accuracy comparable with bulk ammo, HOWEVER the T97's POI shifts drastically if you swap between different brands of, say, M193, while the X95 is much more consistent. For example, when I swapped from Federal M193 to Independence to PMC XTAC, I had to re-zero my T97 every time (about 5-6" off target, which would sometimes put me off-paper), while the X95 was only off by about an inch at most. I also find the T97's accuracy to be significantly affected by weather conditions and other quirky factors. (Don't even get me started about it's lock time)

I like my T97 a lot, awesome budget option I wouldn't hesitate to recommend. But it's a budget option, and the X95 is a better rifle by nearly every metric.
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I am only using Fiocchi 55 grain. I can't tell you about my groups because I am half blind but a young fellow I brought to the range was getting below 2 inch groups at 100 m. My assessment of accuracy comes from several youtube videos I watched - of course this is not what somebody else might experience and the setup of the rifle, the shooter and the shooting setup plays a role. I never owned one or shot a X95, I am not a big fan of bull pups but at $1K, I could not resist to buy the T97 gen 3.

The X95 is used by IDF because it is a bullpup and use it in close quarters.

At 2 to 2 1/2 times the price, I sure hope the X95 is better. Despite being a bullpup, I kept the T97 because it is quite slim. I don't think I would like the X95, not for the price alone but also it's bulkiness.

My post was more in regards to the Kel-Tec - which I would not touch with a 10 foot pole.
 
A few years ago, I did some chronometer testing with different 55 grain ammo and the Fiocchi was the most consistent, so I stick with it now. The cheap 223/556 ammo just does not provide the consistency to give you accurate results. I don't mind if it cost a little more. You get what you pay for.
 
brownbear53 said:
Almost all OOBDs are a sticky firing pin staying forward and igniting the primer when the round pushed back on the feed ramps, user skill issue, not the guns fault, any more slop in the firing pin would add faster wear that consumers would complain about,

Bad primers are also a potential cause but that's out of our hands, all we can do is buy quality manufacturers ammo.
The keltecs are known for blowing up because they're cheap low quality plastic builds. the SUB2k is the most common of them, buffer tubes disintegrating into jaws kinda stuff.
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This is a perfect example of what I meant when I said the vast majority of people don't understand how their rifle works and thus attribute every significant failure to OOB.

Modern SA rifles are specifically designed to hold the firing pin back so that it cannot contact the primer before the bolt is fully forward. Thus, your statement that OOB are caused by a sticky firing pin ignores how modern rifles function.

The idea of "slop in the firing pin" is ludicrous. Firing pins move the exact amount they are designed to move in order to properly function and reliably ignite the ammo. There is no excess slop in a firing pin operation.

Please explain exactly, how the round sticking on the feed ramp and being hit by a protruding firing pin is a "user skill issue and not the gun's fault"?
 
Type 97s are fine when they are $850...quality control is very hit or miss

Accuracy is pretty decent...factory irons suck, GOOD scope mount options sucks

Trigger sucks...and no real fix...magazine fitment is also iffy.

Support and spare parts (important) and worthwhile upgrades are all basically ZERO

...AND that damn safety position and 180 degrees throw

Unless you already have 3+ of them...don't bother!
 
fritzhanzel said:
A few years ago, I did some chronometer testing with different 55 grain ammo and the Fiocchi was the most consistent, so I stick with it now. The cheap 223/556 ammo just does not provide the consistency to give you accurate results. I don't mind if it cost a little more. You get what you pay for.
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Bulk ammo is still bulk ammo...can change lot to lot and year to year.
 
I Dont Care About You said:
This is a perfect example of what I meant when I said the vast majority of people don't understand how their rifle works and thus attribute every significant failure to OOB.

Modern SA rifles are specifically designed to hold the firing pin back so that it cannot contact the primer before the bolt is fully forward. Thus, your statement that OOB are caused by a sticky firing pin ignores how modern rifles function.

The idea of "slop in the firing pin" is ludicrous. Firing pins move the exact amount they are designed to move in order to properly function and reliably ignite the ammo. There is no excess slop in a firing pin operation.

Please explain exactly, how the round sticking on the feed ramp and being hit by a protruding firing pin is a "user skill issue and not the gun's fault"?
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You misunderstood the whole slop part,
The Slop I'm referring to is the extra movement you will see if, in the event manufacturers increasing tolerances to prevent 'sticky firing pins'

Your firing pin after striking the primer, needs to move back for the safety mechanism, if it stays stuck forward, it wont really allow the safety mechanism to function, it blocks the firing pin from dropping, but it wont retract or stop an already dropped firing pin that's stuck.
Glocks are a prime example of it,
This is also how people make non BRRRRRT firearms go BRRRRRT,
All depends on independent mechanisms in the rifles off course.

Rounds hitting the feed ramp are quite obviously resisting forward momentum by some amount as they get chambered, a firing pin stuck forward will exert pressure on the primer during the whole chambering process, this is often enough to set it off if all conditions line up.
The only way to prevent this is by having the user actually put an effort to clean their fire control group, hence, "User skill issue"
Its just a term to call them incompetent.

I have run multiple firearms out to 4000-5000 rounds before cleaning, they're disgusting internally, but no issues with OOBDs or round failures, minor feeding issues though
 
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