Recommendations for bolt action rifles

bearhunter said:
"I prefer the 30-06 over the 308Win, for lots of good reasons, most because you can shoot bullets heavier than 165 grains FASTER and they are available as factory-loaded ammo."

That's the direct quote of what I said

Not even a hint that 180gr factory loads weren't available for the 308Win.

Factory loaded 30-06, 180 grain bullets are faster than factory 308 as well as most 165 gr factory 308

There was a time when you could buy factory loaded 200 grain loads, but they weren't common and weren't available for long.
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In the late 70s when I started working in the bush, a lot of the old timers had 220 grain ammo for their 30-06 rifles. I think it was Dominion.

These were for camp rifles and problem black bears and the three ess's.......

https://chuckhawks.com/200-220_30-06_loads.html
 
hard to imagine a 30-06 ever proving to be the decisive factor as in doing something that couldn't be done with an available 308 load
 
derek2007 said:
I just got my first of many Fine Bergara B14 Hunter Match Rifles and I must say I'm in shock at the absolute quality and attention to detail. I can't work the bolt with my pinky finger and it's so smooth I can rest a coin in the rail and it won't move while loading.

I sold a few other high end rigs and will be grabbing another B14 Hunter Match in 300wm to go with my tack driving 6.5cr version

Definitely top of the line quality that makes my $2700 Ruger PRS look like a Norinco lol
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Ahh the B14s...love/hate thing for me haha.

Some great attributes but a few faults that make me say I'll take the Ruger lol. Love the Bergara stock though.
 
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Joel said:
hard to imagine a 30-06 ever proving to be the decisive factor as in doing something that couldn't be done with an available 308 load
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Only if you choose to ignore the powder capacity to bullet ratios.

If you shoot lighter, well constructed bullets, 165 grains and lower, the 308Win will duplicate or come close enough to 30-06 capabilities that there is no real difference, other than in an individual mind set.

Both cartridges, when chambered in accurate rifles will produce similar accuracy.

For some folks who pinch pennies, the 308 Win is slightly cheaper to load as it uses less powder to achieve similar results with light bullets.

I'm not saying the 30-06 is a better cartridge, that's up to the individual preference.

Buttttttt if a shooter wants to propel HEAVY for caliber bullets faster, the 30-06 gets the edge, just like the 300 Win Mag would provide more velocity with those bullets, and for the same reason, more propellant.
 
bearhunter said:
Only if you choose to ignore the powder capacity to bullet ratios.

If you shoot lighter, well constructed bullets, 165 grains and lower, the 308Win will duplicate or come close enough to 30-06 capabilities that there is no real difference, other than in an individual mind set.

Both cartridges, when chambered in accurate rifles will produce similar accuracy.

For some folks who pinch pennies, the 308 Win is slightly cheaper to load as it uses less powder to achieve similar results with light bullets.

I'm not saying the 30-06 is a better cartridge, that's up to the individual preference.

Buttttttt if a shooter wants to propel HEAVY for caliber bullets faster, the 30-06 gets the edge, just like the 300 Win Mag would provide more velocity with those bullets, and for the same reason, more propellant.
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None of that says "heres the task a hunter would accomplish with a 30-06 that would have been impossible with a 308" though.

You're right, I'm choosing to ignore powder capacity to bullet ratios because I don't think the difference between these two cartridges matters.
 
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Joel said:
None of that says "heres the task a hunter would accomplish with a 30-06 that would have been impossible with a 308" though.

You're right, I'm choosing to ignore powder capacity to bullet ratios because I don't think the difference between these two cartridges matters.
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Of course it does.

The 308 Win is a very capable cartridge and I like it. The excellent hunting bullets being offered today negate the use of heavy for caliber bullets but it most certainly doesn't detract from the effectiveness of the heavy for caliber bullets under all circumstances, up close and retaining energy at longer ranges.

For most practical hunting circumstances, with off the shelf ammo and comparable firearms, there is no practical difference between the two in the field.
 
bearhunter said:
Of course it does.

The 308 Win is a very capable cartridge and I like it. The excellent hunting bullets being offered today negate the use of heavy for caliber bullets but it most certainly doesn't detract from the effectiveness of the heavy for caliber bullets under all circumstances, up close and retaining energy at longer ranges.

For most practical hunting circumstances, with off the shelf ammo and comparable firearms, there is no practical difference between the two in the field.
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So that thing the hunter could accomplish in the field with his 30-06 that he couldn't have with his 308 is, what?

Pretty sure we've established that 30-06 is the more powerful of the two, we really aren't getting anywhere on "how's it matter"
 
You're wearing "my own circumstance blinders" mostly just to be argumentative, without putting any effort into it.

Heavy bullets work better under some circumstances than even very well constructed light bullets.

Lot of game gets hit with light bullets and doesn't get harvested, where a heavier bullet would have put it down.

Again, this depends on the circumstances of the hunt.
 
bearhunter said:
You're wearing "my own circumstance blinders" mostly just to be argumentative, without putting any effort into it.

Heavy bullets work better under some circumstances than even very well constructed light bullets.

Lot of game gets hit with light bullets and doesn't get harvested, where a heavier bullet would have put it down.

Again, this depends on the circumstances of the hunt.
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Great rhetoric, but I'm not the one dragging this out or being argumentative whatsoever. I'm asking you a simple question and it just isn't being answered.

Once again for the 4th or 5th time now? What can a hunter accomplish in the field with a 30-06 that he could not have with a 308? If the answer is "nothing" or even "I don't know", all you gotta do is say so.

If you wanna critique others for lack of effort, stop putting so much of your own into obfuscating and just provide an example lol. I'm only going to ask you again if you continue not to. You say its all about circumstances? Then how about just stating in what circumstance you think it would make the difference?
 
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Good grief.

It's quite obvious more energy delivered even at practical for most shooters at any given range with heavier bullets than the 308Win can propel efficiently.
 
bearhunter said:
Good grief.

It's quite obvious more energy delivered even at practical for most shooters at any given range with heavier bullets than the 308Win can propel efficiently.
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Yeah you've said that a whole bunch of times now but you've still never even attempted an example.

When would the edge in performance for the 30-06 ever mean success vs failure compared to a 308?

If you can't think of a single case, you can just say so. Try it, you won't die. It won't even feel that bad. Promise!
 
bearhunter said:
Nothing to prove.

The 30-06 will shoot 200 grain bullets more efficiently than any 308 Win, even yours.
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No ones disputed that any of the 10 times you've said it ;) And I don't know where you get the "even yours" part from since I don't have a 30-06 or a 308 anymore. Either way, having personal investment in a certain cartridge is dumb. They're just tools.

Now that your strawmen are put away and their remains have been swept up, I can break it down to one simple statement.

There is no situation in the field in which a hunter would succeed because he had a 30-06 where he'd fail if he had a 308. Its really that easy. Despite the 30-06 being more powerful, their Venn diagrams in terms of what they can accomplish while hunting overlap completely. That's why you can't cite an example.
 
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the nice thing is that pretty much every rifle and cartridge combo that has been listed here is going to work great for you.

Most of them will shoot sub 1.5 moa out of the box. Some may even shoot tiny groups. Things like glass and the equipment that will keep you comfortable on your hunt are far more critical in my opinion.

Now you have asked about rifles so I will give you my opinion. I am a backpack hunter in my mid 30s.

I would go with a lightweight 308 with a brake. A stainless barrel or something with deep blueing. I have had blued savages and tikkas rust on me out on hunts. For 400 yards you don’t need more than a 9x scope. However I would encourage you to close the distance to much closer than 400 yards.

This year stalked into my bears mountainside bed at 40 yards and used 3x on my 3x9x40 to take the shot. The brush actually made longer shots impossible so too much zoom is an issue.

So I reccomend a rustproof rifle that weighs less than 6.5 lbs and a 3x9x40 or 2-7x33 scope. Don’t worry about the brand name so much.
 
I once shot two different whitetail buck of similar size with the same batch of 7mag reloads. Hornady 175 grain bullet to the spine behindthe front shoulder. One was at 350 yrds and the other was at 60 yrds.

The 350 yrd shot blew right through the heavy vertebrae and dropped the deer on the spot No bullet recovered.
The 60 yrd shot stopped on the outside of the vertebrae without much notable damage but perfectly mushroomed. Deer dropped on the spot needed to be finished off.

Its tough to quantify bullet performance on different animals even with the exact same load much less than comparing different cartridges as well.

The 30-06 with a 200 grain bullet will deliver more energy than a 308 with the same bullet if loaded to their maximum potential.

Will that matter in a standing broadside shot to the heart/lungs? Nope probably not. To the front shoulders? Maybe. To the spine facing away at the bottom of a steep slope? Maybe. But on a given animal maybe 300 win mag would have been better.

I have heard tall tales of grizzly taken with the .22lr. In my opinion hunt with what you can shoot accurately and shoot at distance you are capable. All the rest is just fun debate and diX measuring.
 
Sleeper said:
I once shot two different whitetail buck of similar size with the same batch of 7mag reloads. Hornady 175 grain bullet to the spine behindthe front shoulder. One was at 350 yrds and the other was at 60 yrds.

The 350 yrd shot blew right through the heavy vertebrae and dropped the deer on the spot No bullet recovered.
The 60 yrd shot stopped on the outside of the vertebrae without much notable damage but perfectly mushroomed. Deer dropped on the spot needed to be finished off.

Its tough to quantify bullet performance on different animals even with the exact same load much less than comparing different cartridges as well.

The 30-06 with a 200 grain bullet will deliver more energy than a 308 with the same bullet if loaded to their maximum potential.

Will that matter in a standing broadside shot to the heart/lungs? Nope probably not. To the front shoulders? Maybe. To the spine facing away at the bottom of a steep slope? Maybe. But on a given animal maybe 300 win mag would have been better.

I have heard tall tales of grizzly taken with the .22lr. In my opinion hunt with what you can shoot accurately and shoot at distance you are capable. All the rest is just fun debate and diX measuring.
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Sleeper,

You just described what I was trying to say about the 30-06 vs 308 only mattering at the very ragged edge of both of their performances in which neither is really a good choice anyway. Well said.
 
redneck09 said:
the nice thing is that pretty much every rifle and cartridge combo that has been listed here is going to work great for you.

Most of them will shoot sub 1.5 moa out of the box. Some may even shoot tiny groups. Things like glass and the equipment that will keep you comfortable on your hunt are far more critical in my opinion.

Now you have asked about rifles so I will give you my opinion. I am a backpack hunter in my mid 30s.

I would go with a lightweight 308 with a brake. A stainless barrel or something with deep blueing. I have had blued savages and tikkas rust on me out on hunts. For 400 yards you don’t need more than a 9x scope. However I would encourage you to close the distance to much closer than 400 yards.

This year stalked into my bears mountainside bed at 40 yards and used 3x on my 3x9x40 to take the shot. The brush actually made longer shots impossible so too much zoom is an issue.

So I reccomend a rustproof rifle that weighs less than 6.5 lbs and a 3x9x40 or 2-7x33 scope. Don’t worry about the brand name so much.
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What are your favorite stainless rifles, Redneck?
 
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