Restricted Storeage Question
- Thread starter kkramar
- Start date
Ignore all the misinformation...buy it, bolt it down, but your restricted in it unloacked, with a loaded mag right next to it, and you are legal. All this BS about trigger locks...really only required for transporting. Ammo and guns in the same safe...not a problem legally. As for defining it as a safe, there is no distinction in the law...so use the reasonable test...its not cardboard, but it is not "easily" broken into. 'nuff said.
Are you willing to risk a criminal charge and the seizure of your firearms? The law puts safes into two categories and is very vague about describing them. That means that defining if it as a "safe" or a "container" is all in the mind of the cop/jury. These Stack-On cabinets are also at the bottom end safes. So all it takes is a single person with a stick up his ass to give you or I an unsafe storage charge. Even if it's dismissed for the nonsense it is, it would still cost thousands in legal fees and a long time without our firearms.
However, if we move up to a better quality, even if only a little higher like this or this, it looks better, and you have the argument that it's a "safe" as it is more secure than the Stack-On. It makes it much more likely you won't be charged for only a little more money.
Of course, you probably won't have that problem anyway, but until I meet a lawyer with a good knowledge of firearms case law, I'll store my restricteds in something better or with the trigger locks on, just to be safe.
My take on it: Any vault or safe is OK but for a room to be OK it has has to be built or modified specifically to store firearms. The item you bought is not a safe though. It is a cabinet - a gun cabinet but still just a cabinet.
As for ammunition, it is OK to store it in the same cabinet as your guns. Per the RCMP: "Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be stored in the same locked container as the firearm."
If I was worried about being slapped with a improper storage of firearms charge, then to be safe, i'd put a trigger lock on it. I'd get a trigger lock with a 3 number combo. If the combo to open the lock is 677 then set the lock to 676 and its super easy to take off, and it meets firearm storage laws.
http://www.protocan.ca/products.htm
-Are these safes safe?
-Does it need to be bolted down?
-Could a pistol be stored w/o a trigger or cable lock?
How long will the local police setup an appointment for inspection regarding storage of firearms. Do all people with rpal/pal has undergone this?
-Are these safes safe?
-Does it need to be bolted down?
-Could a pistol be stored w/o a trigger or cable lock?
How long will the local police setup an appointment for inspection regarding storage of firearms. Do all people with rpal/pal has undergone this?
Note that the safe should be built or modified specifically to store firearms. If it is not, ie safe to store valuables/money/jewelry, technically, IMO, it does not qualify as legal storage of restricted or prohibited firearms without a locking device - consider it a receptacle. Look for a "GUN SAFE". Be careful. The cabinet illustrated by the OP is just that........a cabinet -so you need a locking device such as a trigger lock.
You can store your ammunition together with your firearm in a locked safe, vault, room, container, cabinet or receptacle.
Securing the cabinet is a good idea. Just because your storage meets the minimum standards under the Firearms Act, doesn't necessarily mean you've met the minimum standards under Criminal Code subsection 86(1):
Police don't give a rats ass about the Firearms Act - they will charge you under the Criminal Code, confiscate your firearms and see how it plays out. Many firearm owners are subject to varying circumstances. What might be OK for one individual, might not be OK for another. You really need to consider your circumstances ie break-ins in your neighbourhood, children living with you/visiting, friends, access of others, etc. If theres ever an accident or a theft, you may be held accountable. There is a saying - "the most expensive safe is cheaper than the least expensive lawyer".
I figure it's easiest to store them with the trigger locks on anyway because as soon as I remove them from my safe, they need locks put on so they can go into the range bags. Just cuts out an annoying step of putting the locks on/off when going into/coming out of the safe.
Yes, but C.C. section 86 contains another hurdle (floor) which is the minimum storage requirements in the F.A.. I was just pointing out that C.C. subsection 86(1) may hold you to a higher standard or raise the floor given the right set of circumstances. Its really quite dangerous.
As per storage regulation for restricteds:
- Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into;
******
Would a lockable pistol case/box supplied by the manufacturer be considered as "container"?
- Attach a secure locking device so the firearms cannot be fired and lock them in a cabinet, container or room that is hard to break into;
******
Would a lockable pistol case/box supplied by the manufacturer be considered as "container"?
I'm no lawyer, but I asked CFC regarding the definition of a container and storage in such containers, and she replied to me as any opaque object that encases your firearm in a safe manner is considered a "container". She said I must secure the container with a lock so that it is hard to break into.
The box that comes with the pistol seems pretty fragile. If I were to put one in a container, I'll trust a Pelican case more than I trust the factory box.
The box that comes with the pistol seems pretty fragile. If I were to put one in a container, I'll trust a Pelican case more than I trust the factory box.
Curious....
That the CTC's promotional picture shows (presumably) Restricted firearms and ammunition in their product at the same time without any indication of trigger-locks being present...
I'd think that as long as they use this picture in their catalogue that you'd have a civil tort case against CTC if you were successfully convicted by the Feds for storing your possessions in a similar manner in the product pictured; but, I'm not a lawyer.
That the CTC's promotional picture shows (presumably) Restricted firearms and ammunition in their product at the same time without any indication of trigger-locks being present...
I'd think that as long as they use this picture in their catalogue that you'd have a civil tort case against CTC if you were successfully convicted by the Feds for storing your possessions in a similar manner in the product pictured; but, I'm not a lawyer.
I had a similar thought in post #7 in this thread. Although I was thinking more along the lines that Canadian Tire was saying it's ok to store pistols and ammunition in. Sort of "officially induced error" (no official, but sort of).
I wouldn't think you could sue Canadian Tire over your going to jail for doing what was in the photo, or the title of the object.
Careless storage is most difficult to prove.
And really, have you ever heard of anyone charged in Canada for being the victim of theft?
Let's not turn paranoid.
