restristed vs non
- Thread starter skinner
- Start date
After shooting four or five XCR-L and a couple XCR-M and five ACR's I think the only thing the XCR does better is price. It's a good rifle but just not as accurate or built as well as the ACR.
If you're anywhere around Edmonton PM me and we can try to line up an afternoon shoot somewhere so you can try my ACR.
Do you own one?
I've shot 3 of them and wasn't all that impressed. They are nice but two of the ones I shot had feeding issues even when using 150gr FMJ ammo (I only put 5 rounds through the third one so who knows).
All three of them had the non reciprocating charge handle bouncing around and sitting mid stroke when the rifle locked back after last round.
They are beautiful rifles but they aren't perfect and they definitely aren't worth the price tag compared to the other options we have available to us for $1000 less.
I'm not far from Redwater, easy detour if you're headed to Edmonton. Offer is always open.
The basic problem is there are far more choices with restricted vs non restricted and the AR design really is the pinnacle of modular semi auto rifles. The non restricted options presently offer some unique alternatives but they don't deliver the performance of the AR rifles and the prices are higher to much higher.
An accurized AR in either AR15 or AR10/308 can deliver solid .5 moa performance. The price point for this is in the $1500 to $3000 range and higher if you want. A stag 6R for 223 comes with a .5 moa guarantee as does the higher end Les Bauer. In AR10/408 a DPMS at $1500 with the LR308 24" SS barrel can get you there, as can a more expensive or more tactical AR10/308. The AR10T DND version for instance is a little known gem that shoots exceptionally well.
The non restricted is a different ball game. Many of the options are based off older battle rifles such as the M14 or Famae/sg 542. The XCR-M had promise but it wasn't designed for accuracy and the barrel retention system seems to be an accuracy issue. The FN entry is more of a hunting rifle hybrid than a black rifle. Accuracy results typically have been reported as 1 moa and a bit below. The Kel Tec RFB offers a non restricted bull pup. The best accuracy I could get using 168 ammo was 1.5 moa 5 rounds at 100. That being said I traded mine before testing what seems to be the trick with the RFB ie non brass rounds. 145 MFS is said to perform very well. The RFB uses a tilting block rather than rotating lug design which doesn't seem to do as well with brass ammo. It's suspected that expansion is the culprit as the non brass ammo gives a more consistent start. Close to 1 moa may be possible. I traded mine before being able to confirm this in a target shooting setting. It's short and very compact. Put a magpul shorty verticle grip on it and you have the quickest handling carbine like 308 of the non restricted rifles. Quality is ok but not great.
By far the best bang for the buck and options is restricted.
An accurized AR in either AR15 or AR10/308 can deliver solid .5 moa performance. The price point for this is in the $1500 to $3000 range and higher if you want. A stag 6R for 223 comes with a .5 moa guarantee as does the higher end Les Bauer. In AR10/408 a DPMS at $1500 with the LR308 24" SS barrel can get you there, as can a more expensive or more tactical AR10/308. The AR10T DND version for instance is a little known gem that shoots exceptionally well.
The non restricted is a different ball game. Many of the options are based off older battle rifles such as the M14 or Famae/sg 542. The XCR-M had promise but it wasn't designed for accuracy and the barrel retention system seems to be an accuracy issue. The FN entry is more of a hunting rifle hybrid than a black rifle. Accuracy results typically have been reported as 1 moa and a bit below. The Kel Tec RFB offers a non restricted bull pup. The best accuracy I could get using 168 ammo was 1.5 moa 5 rounds at 100. That being said I traded mine before testing what seems to be the trick with the RFB ie non brass rounds. 145 MFS is said to perform very well. The RFB uses a tilting block rather than rotating lug design which doesn't seem to do as well with brass ammo. It's suspected that expansion is the culprit as the non brass ammo gives a more consistent start. Close to 1 moa may be possible. I traded mine before being able to confirm this in a target shooting setting. It's short and very compact. Put a magpul shorty verticle grip on it and you have the quickest handling carbine like 308 of the non restricted rifles. Quality is ok but not great.
By far the best bang for the buck and options is restricted.
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I have come to a deduction, of all my SA rifles (308 and 223) including both restricted and non restricted, both my FNAR Competition are alone up there, for under .75 MOA ( see Trinimon challenge), this is not ONE exeptionnal rifle but since i own 2 and both are great shooters and sub MOA, the plattform is definitly in a superior class...
For what it's worth i have ranked them by precision according to my own shooting...
Now, this is not complete because i have yet to shoot a MH and i dont know were it could position itself in my list, hopefully near the top...
FNAR...
KAC SR15 Mod 2...
AR-10T...
DPMS HBAR 308...
SA NM M1A...
Bushmaster XDM-10...
DD MK18...
For what it's worth i have ranked them by precision according to my own shooting...
Now, this is not complete because i have yet to shoot a MH and i dont know were it could position itself in my list, hopefully near the top...
FNAR...
KAC SR15 Mod 2...
AR-10T...
DPMS HBAR 308...
SA NM M1A...
Bushmaster XDM-10...
DD MK18...
cz858: 4moa
Will they do that 25 shots in a row, my FNAR's does ( one of my FNAR is very close to be a .5 MOA rifle,it just need a little more work and concentration ), but, i want to see some SA that will shoot all the time sub .5 MOA, i will be motivated at buying one...
Which ones are regular .5 MOA AR... JP.
Will they do that 25 shots in a row, my FNAR's does ( one of my FNAR is very close to be a .5 MOA rifle,it just need a little more work and concentration ), but, i want to see some SA that will shoot all the time sub .5 MOA, i will be motivated at buying one...
Which ones are regular .5 MOA AR... JP.
The ones with Walther Lothar 1:11.25 SS barrels and match triggers are .5 moa using 168 or 175 smk loads in the 43-44 grain range for varget. Also the DPMS LR-308 with 24" SS is when shooting 167 Lapua match ammo. That one doesn't shoot federal gold type rounds that well but is a tack driver with Lapua.
Your AR10t should have been capable of .5 providing you set the trigger weight to the lowest level and took into consideration the 1:10 twist barrel. Finding the right rounds for that one is like the DPMS and takes some trial and error. The military style match barrels are much easier to find quick reload recipes or off the shelf match ammo they like.
That Weird looking FN rifle still doesn't shoot as well as those world class MR1 rifles you had!
Mumbles Marble Mouth
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland
The closest thing you will get is a ATRS Modern Hunter.
I
Lol what?????
Listen everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I have never heard or experienced what your saying. There is no non restricted black rifle that even shoot 3 MOA never mind sub MOA like the MH. And please folks, spare me on the stories of your sub MOA xcr and tavor. I owned both and neither can hit the broad side of a barn compared to a MH. Now don't get me wrong tavor and xcr are great guns I have a lot of fun. And accuracy for a black rifle is not the priority I get it. But since the OP was asking about accuracy I have to be honest. I actually sold off my tavor because bullpup just wasn't my cup of tea. But easily in my experience the least accurate of the non restricted. I reloaded every powder and bullet combination and couldn't get anything tighter then 3" groups. (I'm no Chris Kyle, but I own long range precision bolt actions that I shoot 3/4" groups all day). Xcr I was able to get a decent 1.5" group one day, and another 2.5"+. No consistency in that design.
My modern hunter I have only begun load testing and I'm already doing sub MOA groups. And when I say sub MOA groups I mean 5 groups of 5 rounds on one page. The only other non restricted I fired that came close was the Hk. But hated the plastic look and feel.
People pay $3500 for famae, Swiss tavor etc. you can't even compare those rifles to a MH. And that's from shooting thousands of rounds thru all of the above.
Lol what?????
Listen everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I have never heard or experienced what your saying. There is no non restricted black rifle that even shoot 3 MOA never mind sub MOA like the MH. And please folks, spare me on the stories of your sub MOA xcr and tavor. I owned both and neither can hit the broad side of a barn compared to a MH. Now don't get me wrong tavor and xcr are great guns I have a lot of fun. And accuracy for a black rifle is not the priority I get it. But since the OP was asking about accuracy I have to be honest. I actually sold off my tavor because bullpup just wasn't my cup of tea. But easily in my experience the least accurate of the non restricted. I reloaded every powder and bullet combination and couldn't get anything tighter then 3" groups. (I'm no Chris Kyle, but I own long range precision bolt actions that I shoot 3/4" groups all day). Xcr I was able to get a decent 1.5" group one day, and another 2.5"+. No consistency in that design.
My modern hunter I have only begun load testing and I'm already doing sub MOA groups. And when I say sub MOA groups I mean 5 groups of 5 rounds on one page. The only other non restricted I fired that came close was the Hk. But hated the plastic look and feel.
People pay $3500 for famae, Swiss tavor etc. you can't even compare those rifles to a MH. And that's from shooting thousands of rounds thru all of the above.
If you have room, why not build your own range - then shoot restricteds at home
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...icted-handguns-in-my-backyard-perfectly-legal!
Seems like the answer to me - if you own your own earth moving equipment, it might even be cheaper.
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For sale after Only a month? You should hold onto a sub moa 5 round shooter with no weird fliers non restricted rifle. Especially in 308. Not as rare in 223/5.56.
In 223/5.56 Swiss PE90 target or sniper versions, HK SL8, ACR with SS match barrel, not a black rifle but mini14 target model with laminate stock. Those options are moa capable.
In 308, RFB was 1.5 moa capable. Others have brought that down using non brass ammo. Ie Winchester hunting ammo and 145 MFS. No weird fliers but vertical stringing can be an issue.
So yup not much competition for a true black rifle in non restricted that shoots moa. Or even the more common 1.5 moa.
The real salt in the wound though is that there are a fair amount of restricted AR rifles in both 223 or 308 that are .5 moa capable. It's unfortunate there is such a huge difference between what's available in the two classifications . So many more options in restricted.
