RFB - best.. rifle.. ever.

[rally guy]

Two problems with your post. Most stocks are too long not too short. Second, if you can't adjust your lop without tools and additional pieces, your system sucks. Yes an a2 AR stock is also crap. Adjustable stocks aren't for storage and transport, they actually serve a real purpose.

Tdc

Yes on this I fully agree with you , if for say one was to where body armor then the lenght of pull of the rfb would be a problem. A bullpup rifle has those disadvantage that and he slower mag change but there shorter overall length and longer barrel present there advantage. Just diffrent beast

 

[ztunelover]

Yes on this I fully agree with you , if for say one was to where body armor then the lenght of pull of the rfb would be a problem. A bullpup rifle has those disadvantage that and he slower mag change but there shorter overall length and longer barrel present there advantage. Just diffrent beast

So what do you need the longer barrel in a more compact package for?

 

[rally guy]

Hunting

 

[cr5]

So I did a little searching and found that the Tavor has indeed been fielded in combat so yes it is combat proven. I have always agree'd that it is a fine rifle but until they offer a 30 cal version it's really irrelevant to this conversation as it is not competition for the RFB and the only similarity between them is the bullpup layout.

TDC, fixed stocks are better for using as a club than adjustable ones

I'm not really sure why it is relevant that it doesn't have an adjustable length of pull in case you are wearing body armor. This isn't a military rifle and isn't fielded by any military or law enforcement agencies. It is a sporting rifle and I've never had an issue with length whether wearing a T-shirt or a winter coat. It does what it was designed to do and from my experience it does it well. I have around 500 (just a guess based on how full my ammo can is today compared to how full it was when I dumped 1000 rounds into it when I got the RFB) and it has been 100% reliable with all mags I've used other than when I didn't give it enough gas to cycle properly. If I didn't care about adjusting it for the smoothest operation possible and the least wear and tear on the rifle and my shoulder I could over-gas it like most semi auto rifles are set up and it would cycle anything I fed it. I've fired everything from factory FMJ and 150gr hunting loads to my handloads ranging from 110gr V-max through 165gr SST loads and have been able to adjust the gas system to function smoothly with all of them. I'm the type to do a lot of testing when I buy a new rifle to find out what ammo it likes and to develop a couple handloads for it then once I know I usually only have a couple different loads that it will get fed, currently I have 3 loads for it, 147gr S&B FMJ, 110gr V-max handloads and 150gr SST handloads. All function perfectly and give acceptable accuracy. A couple clicks + or - on the gas adjuster to switch and I'm done. If I switched regularly I could mark the knob and just have the index point written down to make it easy when switching but since 90% of my shooting is with the 147gr FMJ (which creates brass for my 308 bolt action) I just leave it set for that ammo and fine tune it if needed.


If you are buying a rifle for personal use then it is just that, a sporting arm. If you are going to war then your going to be issued a rifle and it won't be an RFB or a Tavor, it's going to be a variant of the AR if you live in North America.
Since I don't wear body armor for deer hunting it really makes no difference to me.

I think the title of the thread should have been "Best Non Restricted 308 Bullpup available in Canada ever" then all this pointless nit-picking and bashing could have been avoided.

I move to close the thread as we are just going around in circles and nothing new or helpful is going to be brought up beyond what has already been said. Some like it and some hate it bla bla bla.

 

[greentips]

Two problems with your post. Most stocks are too long not too short. Second, if you can't adjust your lop without tools and additional pieces, your system sucks. Yes an a2 AR stock is also crap. Adjustable stocks aren't for storage and transport, they actually serve a real purpose.

Tdc

I have spent some time with the TAVOR and some other bullpup platforms. The fixed LOP is more of an issue if you are using a magnified optic, especially with an optic that is sensitive in the eye relief distance. You may subtly try to put your head closer and hunch your neck over to get the eye relief in winter clothing(or web gear, armour....etc), for a rifle that is setup in summer. This is not so much of an issue if the optic is a Reflex type sight or Aimpoint, with no eye relief.

There is a good reason the TAVOR is abandoned by the IDF, and that they switch to the X95. The TAVOR and the X95 essentially use the same guts, but the X95 is like an inch shorter in the LOP. The TAVOR LOP is too long for general issue. Give this to a 17/18 years old girl covered in armour ( The IDF has a full mixed ### infantry brigade and even more female support troops), it is essentially like handling a rife with an A2 full stock and a 8" barrel. This does not work well with how these guys teach their people to shoot, with arms squeezed in to make contact with the rifle the way one will shoot a SMG, especially for small guys. But for sporting use with the bigger guys in North America, the TAVOR is probably a better choice than the X95, with longer LOP and longer handguard.

I guess my point is that, short OAL means not much other than transportation and negotiating obstacles. If the you want to use rifle to shoot fast and accurately (without tiring yourself), you cannot have a long LOP and a super short handguard, or a long handguard with a short LOP. LOP and support arm reach need to be balanced.

 

[TDC]

So I did a little searching and found that the Tavor has indeed been fielded in combat so yes it is combat proven. I have always agree'd that it is a fine rifle but until they offer a 30 cal version it's really irrelevant to this conversation as it is not competition for the RFB and the only similarity between them is the bullpup layout.

TDC, fixed stocks are better for using as a club than adjustable ones

I'm not really sure why it is relevant that it doesn't have an adjustable length of pull in case you are wearing body armor. This isn't a military rifle and isn't fielded by any military or law enforcement agencies. It is a sporting rifle and I've never had an issue with length whether wearing a T-shirt or a winter coat. It does what it was designed to do and from my experience it does it well. I have around 500 (just a guess based on how full my ammo can is today compared to how full it was when I dumped 1000 rounds into it when I got the RFB) and it has been 100% reliable with all mags I've used other than when I didn't give it enough gas to cycle properly. If I didn't care about adjusting it for the smoothest operation possible and the least wear and tear on the rifle and my shoulder I could over-gas it like most semi auto rifles are set up and it would cycle anything I fed it. I've fired everything from factory FMJ and 150gr hunting loads to my handloads ranging from 110gr V-max through 165gr SST loads and have been able to adjust the gas system to function smoothly with all of them. I'm the type to do a lot of testing when I buy a new rifle to find out what ammo it likes and to develop a couple handloads for it then once I know I usually only have a couple different loads that it will get fed, currently I have 3 loads for it, 147gr S&B FMJ, 110gr V-max handloads and 150gr SST handloads. All function perfectly and give acceptable accuracy. A couple clicks + or - on the gas adjuster to switch and I'm done. If I switched regularly I could mark the knob and just have the index point written down to make it easy when switching but since 90% of my shooting is with the 147gr FMJ (which creates brass for my 308 bolt action) I just leave it set for that ammo and fine tune it if needed.


If you are buying a rifle for personal use then it is just that, a sporting arm. If you are going to war then your going to be issued a rifle and it won't be an RFB or a Tavor, it's going to be a variant of the AR if you live in North America.
Since I don't wear body armor for deer hunting it really makes no difference to me.

I think the title of the thread should have been "Best Non Restricted 308 Bullpup available in Canada ever" then all this pointless nit-picking and bashing could have been avoided.

I move to close the thread as we are just going around in circles and nothing new or helpful is going to be brought up beyond what has already been said. Some like it and some hate it bla bla bla.

The issue with a fixed LOP is in regards to the comment that the RFB is the "best rifle ever" which it is not and never will be. As you say, it is a sporting arm and nothing more. Which begs the question why you would need a semi auto or a bullpup for that matter if you're simply hunting with it? At the cost of an RFB a guy could put together a very nice bolt action with glass and ammo to practice. The RFB sounds like its more about looking cool than being practical... And to think people call me a poser

As for the bold, if the title were to read as such, then this thread would be another mental masturbation session of mutual reassurance between owners of said product.

TDC

 

[rally guy]

Tdc come onvrealky your going to go there really? So for hunting a bolt action should suffice? Never minde the fact that its twice easier to handle in the thick bush, getting out the car wen your driving and you
Can keep it on target way longer with out tirering. Your really stooping low with that argument... if we follow your argument why would you need a semi auto for target shooting? Hell why would you need to target shoot as it, by your argument, serve no practical purpose unless your leo or military?

So YES I hunt with my semi auto bullpup and these are the primary reason I hunt with this gun, not cause its kel tec and not to look cool....



Really???.....

 

[Brian46]

The issue with a fixed LOP is in regards to the comment that the RFB is the "best rifle ever" which it is not and never will be. As you say, it is a sporting arm and nothing more. Which begs the question why you would need a semi auto or a bullpup for that matter if you're simply hunting with it? At the cost of an RFB a guy could put together a very nice bolt action with glass and ammo to practice.

TDC

we must have different opinions on "very nice" to come in under the price of an RFB with glass and ammo. I bought the RFB because it was a cheaper hunting alternative to buying another sauer, blaser, heym, etc.

 

[TDC]

Tdc come onvrealky your going to go there really? So for hunting a bolt action should suffice? Never minde the fact that its twice easier to handle in the thick bush, getting out the car wen your driving and you
Can keep it on target way longer with out tirering. Your really stooping low with that argument... if we follow your argument why would you need a semi auto for target shooting? Hell why would you need to target shoot as it, by your argument, serve no practical purpose unless your leo or military?

So YES I hunt with my semi auto bullpup and these are the primary reason I hunt with this gun, not cause its kel tec and not to look cool....



Really???.....

You can't hunt from the vehicle anyway, so what's the rush in getting it out of the car? What micro compact are you driving that creates an issue with removing your firearms? If you're in thick bush, you likely won't see any game and making a shot is not likely either. How long do do you need to take the shot?

Semi autos are great for competition, varmint work, and personal defense. I have nothing against a semi for hunting if its of a quality design and execution, the RFB does not fit that bill. From a purely purpose driven standpoint, a bolt action is more than capable of the hunting role.

And its you're not your.

we must have different opinions on "very nice" to come in under the price of an RFB with glass and ammo. I bought the RFB because it was a cheaper hunting alternative to buying another sauer, blaser, heym, etc.

The brands you quote are great, but they're a lot of hype and over priced IMO. You could run a Sako, Tikka, Savage, Browning, Kimber, Winchester, or Remington with any number of quality optics for less than the retail cost of an RFB. Most Leupold lines for under a grand, Sighron SIII for under a grand, a few Nightforce optics for a little over a grand, Trijicon optics, most Zeiss optics. The options are vast and all for equal or less money than the RFB out of the box and far better performance(provided the shooter does their part).

TDC

 

[cr5]

I'm going to stop hunting with my RFB and start using my Desert Tactical SRS in 338 Lapua with the 5.5-22x56 Nightforce for all my deer hunting from now on. I'll still have a bullpup but it will be a bolt action.
Might be a lot of hype and overpriced but at least I'll be able to hit a deer in the eye at 200yds.

Wanna buy an RFB? Gonna need to get at least $4000 out of it though. Gotta recoup the money I spent on ammo. JK

 

[Brian46]

You pay for what you get when it comes to quality, zeiss is not under a grand unless you are looking at their inferior north american line, hold a conquest next to a diavari and the difference in quality is obvious hence the price. We obviously have different opinions on quality firearms and accessories

 

[cr5]

I think the real question is will an RFB kill alien zombies?


About as relevant as most of the comments in this thread lately.

 

[TDC]

You pay for what you get when it comes to quality, zeiss is not under a grand unless you are looking at their inferior north american line, hold a conquest next to a diavari and the difference in quality is obvious hence the price. We obviously have different opinions on quality firearms and accessories

Inferior to their Diavari line does not mean its junk. For the hunter, its more than enough optic for the job. Don't lose sight of the financial comparison being discussed. The cost of a good bolt gun and glass is less than a stock RFB. Value for the dollar is not in favour of the RFB.

TDC

 

[rally guy]

You can't hunt from the vehicle anyway, so what's the rush in getting it out of the car?

Wow your right! Its not like wen your driving to or from you hunting spot that there is ever the possibility that a deer cross the road in front of you or that you happen to spot one in a feild? I guess the last 3 out of 4 deer I kill were flukes. Also its not like someone ever shot a deer, or any game for that matter in a field and the animal had the very unusual reaction of running in the thick bush....

#I have nothing against a semi for hunting if its of a quality design and execution, the RFB does not fit that bill.

As I previously said yes I will agree some got crappy units but not all are crappy, and I would argue most are flawless. You say its crap cause some suggest that life expectancy is 6000 round. Well are you not talking hunting rifle and not mil spec rifles? I would like to see some of the more affordable bolt actions after 6000 rounds. I'm shure lots would fair well but not all, for some reason I have a hard time believing some would even last 1000 rounds.

AGAIN and please let it sink in, some people like to drive ford, others subarus and other honda ; but all those cars will get you to the grocery s and back.

 

[rally guy]

Come on TDC let it go, we all acknowledge that the rfb is no were near the best of all time but its a good rifle none the less, you've ben around this forum long enough to see all kind of manufacturers and designs have there little problem , it does not mean its crap. Hell even the m16 had horrible reviews wen it came out.

 

[cr5]

Inferior to their Diavari line does not mean its junk. For the hunter, its more than enough optic for the job. Don't lose sight of the financial comparison being discussed. The cost of a good bolt gun and glass is less than a stock RFB. Value for the dollar is not in favour of the RFB.

TDC

Depends what you are looking for and what you value.
Seems like a good deal if you say that a scope costs more than the RFB. That makes me think the RFB is well priced and maybe the scope is overpriced.
This thread has completely derailed. Start a new thread if you wanna talk about bolt actions and high end optics.


We all seem to agree that the RFB is not the best rifle ever built in the history of mankind but the OP obviously loves his and so do a few others. I like mine but know there are better rifles out there. The RFB fills a void in the Canadian market and that is why it is so popular and is still hard to find on the shelves at your local gun store. There aren't that many for sale on the EE so there must be more people that are happy with them as well.
The OP expressed his opinion and you've all made sure he understands that it's wrong.

 

[Brian46]

At the cost of an RFB a guy could put together a very nice bolt action with glass and ammo to practice.
TDC

The cost of a good bolt gun and glass is less than a stock RFB. TDC

the "quality" is degrading with your every post, no need to continue or we will be discussing how the sks is top notch

 

[Brian46]

Inferior to their Diavari line does not mean its junk. For the hunter, its more than enough optic for the job.
TDC

what you think is more than enough for hunting is your opinion, some others may think like you, but others do not. Even my old Leupold scopes have better glass in them than the current conquest line and I would consider that a minimum for the morning and evening hunts where it really counts.

I am not here to argue that the RFB is the best rifle ever so dont get me wrong. It is however the only hunting rifle like it in our market and well worth the price point when you consider your options and look at what you get. The only contender is the SG542 IMO and it is not here yet along with price, accuracy and availability is an unknown till it lands

RFB, 100yds, 180gr factory loaded nosler partitions.

 

[cr5]

what you think is more than enough for hunting is your opinion, some others may think like you, but others do not. Even my old Leupold scopes have better glass in them than the current conquest line and I would consider that a minimum for the morning and evening hunts where it really counts.

I am not here to argue that the RFB is the best rifle ever so dont get me wrong. It is however the only hunting rifle like it in our market and well worth the price point when you consider your options and look at what you get. The only contender is the SG542 IMO and it is not here yet along with price, accuracy and availability is an unknown till it lands

Now you've gone and done it
Now we're gonna have to read about how 3 round groups don't mean anything and that only 5-10 round groups prove a rifles accuracy, how anyone can fluke out a good 3 round group but it takes skill and a real rifle to do it for 10 rounds.

 

[Brian46]

the more rounds you fire heats the gun and changes accuracy, not something you need to worry about hunting as really only the first cold bore shot matters unless you are culling an entire herd of animals.

I would venture to say a 10rnd group is more skill than the rifle quality when looking at hunting rifles in general, to print a really small 10 rnd group you are either equalizing the heat in the gun for every shot by waiting (which is not a true test of accuracy IMO for a 10 rnd string) or able to compensate for the POI shift with your aim as the rifle heats up (not a true test again IMO for 10 rnds)

A true 10rnd group is all rounds fired in succession without compensating your aim to cancel out POI shift as it heats. That gives you the true capability of the rifle.