Robarms XCR-L Reliability Survey

Torque said:
Hmmm. Well for what it is worth, I have hunted coyotes for 2 yrs with my XCR in the snow,mud,ansd rain under varying temperatures. After about 1200 rnds I have to say that it ran as well as my SL8. I have zero complaints about it. Maintenance at times was minimal, but then again I bought this rifle to use in the field, not as a safe queen.
Click to expand...

I would say this is probably about the right way to run an XCR. Occasional shooting, lots of time for maintenance.

For me 1200 rounds might be a single weekend of shooting...I do not have time in that sort of shooting environment to deal with issues cropping up.

I have seen a range of failures from the XCR, most of which related to bolts working loose.

The OP specified that these should not be included in this thread as that's fixable with loctite. Well, I know a guy who, just a few weeks ago, had his loctited barrel screw fall out and the barrel fall off. Naturally if you hardly ever shoot your gun, like the person I just quoted, this is going to be a non-issue, because you will be checking the torque on critical components.

But if you burn 500 rounds in a day for 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 straight days, THAT is when you will see serious meltdown from that gun.

That is why there are a lot of satisfied Canadian hobbyists, and why everyone I know who spends their time in high-round-count environments like shooting courses won't give them a second glance.


Finally, I don't find it hard to believe that someone would own 6 brand name ARs and think 4 of them were junk. I can easily think of 4 popular brand names I wouldn't bother with: DPMS, RRA, Olympic, Armalite, Bushmaster...that was 5 and that was easy. And I didn't even start on the freakshow stuff like Hesse or Vulcan or whatever. So yes, there are plenty of garbage ARs out there.

But the existence of poorly built ARs doesn't make the XCR a better gun than it is. It just means you ALSO have to know something about ARs to have one that will run.
 
I've had my 223 XCR-L for a year and have shoot 850 rounds.
My big problem is the gas block which needs to be retightened and I need to keep my rifle dialed at 3 to reliably feed Winchester 55gr FMJ ammo.
Other than the gas block issue, which almost drove me mad, I've never had any problems with my rifle and accuracy is fantastic with Hornady TAP-FDP 60gr ammo.

I might get a 6.8SPC conversion kit now that we can buy 10 rounds magazines for this caliber :)

Alex
 
Thank You

misanthropist,

Some times the truth hurts,

Your explanation above is very well written and explains the XCR use very accurately.
I'm sure there will still be those who will run to the XCR's defence.

Rich

PS: I like XCR's they are just not serious kit for high volume use.
 
mine works well. I am guesstimating maybe 1000rds thru it + the ammo the previous owner put thru it..(500?)
 
Rich LPS said:
I like XCR's they are just not serious kit for high volume use.
Click to expand...

Well if you're using kit for high volume use punching holes in paper for recreation or competition then by all means go with an AR. Its probably the best, most versatile and cost effective platform for strictly a range gun.

If you in the military in the sandbox or wherever - you're using whatever you're issued.

If you want to hunt with your black rifle then XCR might be the choice depending on how deep your wallet. Swissarms, Tavor maybe OK for coyote but not in .223 for deer or bigger -then you have to look for a larger caliber and that brings us back to the XCR and a few other black rifles.

Just remember the AR platform has had a long development to get the kinks worked out. XCR has no where near that time (and money) invested. The original platform (M16) was notorious for problems when first introduced.
 
Last edited:
fugawi said:
Well if you're using kit for high volume use punching holes in paper for recreation or competition then by all means go with an AR. Its probably the best and most versatile platform for strictly a range gun. If you in the military in the sandbox or wherever - you're using whatever your issued.

If you want to hunt with your black rifle then XCR might be the choice depending on how deep your wallet. Swissarms, Tavor maybe OK for coyote but not in .223 for deer or bigger -then you have to look for a larger caliber and that brings us back to the XCR and a few other black rifles.

Just remember the AR platform has had a long development to get the kinks worked out. XCR has no where near that time (and money) invested. The original platform (M16) was notorious for problems when first introduced.
Click to expand...

Excellent summary. :rockOn:

The new XCR's that are coming into the country seem to be better than the first batch. I had a lemon from the first batch. Little tweaks to a platform can make huge improvements. As you pointed out, look at the M16.

The XCR's ability to switch up to a larger calibre is very nice. Who knows, I might buy another in the future once everything gets ironed out. I don't think they are quite there yet.
 
Well they are definitely not there yet with the XCR-M. Maybe they will - only time will tell.

I personally was/am interested in the XCR-M as a hunting platform, only as time goes by, the XCR-M is starting to receive competition. You can hunt with a CZ 858 in a commercial x39 hunting load - no need even to reload. Same with a SKS although neither are what you would consider a 'black rifle' (though the 858 can be modified to approximate such).

But what might give the XCR-M a run for the money is the Keltec RFB. That cold be trouble for RobArms if the RFB grabs market share in larger calibers.

In the meantime I'm building a Norc M14 shorty.
 
About 600 rnds through mine. No loctite anywhere. Bought it in Jan 2011. I do not volume shoot with this gun, strictly a bush gun. My only problems were mag related. The factory mag that came with it c_product is just fvcking garbage and produced all of my ftf's (5)> I tested it with all types of mags. Lar, pmag, GI alluminum, all ran fine. My pmags sometimes do not hold the bolt open on the last shot though. Other then that it seems like a great gun, only time and higher round count will determin its reliability to me.
 
JAGDMORDER said:
About 600 rnds through mine. No loctite anywhere. Bought it in Jan 2011. I do not volume shoot with this gun, strictly a bush gun. My only problems were mag related. The factory mag that came with it c_product is just fvcking garbage and produced all of my ftf's (5)> I tested it with all types of mags. Lar, pmag, GI alluminum, all ran fine. My pmags sometimes do not hold the bolt open on the last shot though. Other then that it seems like a great gun, only time and higher round count will determin its reliability to me.
Click to expand...

Keep us posted.

I love the look and idea behind the XCR. I want to know if the new ones have solved the problems from the past.
 
fugawi said:
Well if you're using kit for high volume use punching holes in paper for recreation or competition then by all means go with an AR. Its probably the best, most versatile and cost effective platform for strictly a range gun.

If you in the military in the sandbox or wherever - you're using whatever you're issued.

If you want to hunt with your black rifle then XCR might be the choice depending on how deep your wallet. Swissarms, Tavor maybe OK for coyote but not in .223 for deer or bigger -then you have to look for a larger caliber and that brings us back to the XCR and a few other black rifles.

Just remember the AR platform has had a long development to get the kinks worked out. XCR has no where near that time (and money) invested. The original platform (M16) was notorious for problems when first introduced.
Click to expand...

Very well said indeed!
 
fuzzynuts54 said:
who knows, perhaps hoping to get a good one. He bought them all before the release of the XCR or SL8. Now hes happy with a fuctioning rifle. I dont know what all the brands are, theres 6 in total, 4 are complete junk, 2 somewhat work. I have no reason to make this up, I know theres millions and millions of perfectly working AR's. He just has a bunch that dont and I know in no way does his handfull represent the millions of perfectly operating rifles. Im just telling you his dont. Belive it or not, I dont care.
Click to expand...

Really? I call BS on this too. I offer to buy all 6 for 500.00 apiece. If they are that bad he should be happy to see them go. This is a serious offer.
 
Rich LPS said:
Thank You

misanthropist,

Some times the truth hurts,

Your explanation above is very well written and explains the XCR use very accurately.
I'm sure there will still be those who will run to the XCR's defence.

Rich

PS: I like XCR's they are just not serious kit for high volume use.
Click to expand...

Not defending, and couldn't care less about the XCR as I am not a shareholder in the company but your comment caught my eye.

Specifically, how do you define "high volume" ? In how much time ? 1000 rounds a day ? 2000 ? 5000 ? What benchmark rifles are you using for a comparison to come up with your noted 'perceived' shortcomings ? Were the usage environments and models the same ? What broke ? Was this consistent with your pre-trial analysis ? What factors (accuracy, reliability etc) and baselines (eg. 3 FTFs/1000 rnd etc) were considered to make up the criteria that you tested and, presumably, consolidated your findings against ?

Are there any independent and conclusive studies that you can point me towards that would sustain your opinion as I would hate for new entrants to this field to be misinformed ?
 
Rich LPS said:
Thank You

misanthropist,

Some times the truth hurts,

Your explanation above is very well written and explains the XCR use very accurately.
I'm sure there will still be those who will run to the XCR's defence.

Rich

PS: I like XCR's they are just not serious kit for high volume use.
Click to expand...

Thanks boss, I calls 'em like I sees 'em, and coming from you that means a lot.


As far as the above goes, I would say most people would describe "high volume shooting" as "several hundred rounds a day", which is about, in my experience, what you can burn in a day and be actually working on your shooting skills. If you burn a thousand rounds in a day, for me at least, you've gone beyond "high volume" and into "extreme volume" because I think this exceeds the ability of most shooters to actually be learning and developing, and it's just in to "round pounding" at that point.

For a benchmark, I would say any of the rifles used by Western militaries, or rifles built equivalent to that spec, or beyond; those rifles are tested extensively and constitute a known quantity.

I am not aware of any particularly scientifically controlled testing done with the XCR, in part because everybody in that line of work knows it doesn't hold up.

What I am aware of is a very large number of private training outfits which see large numbers of civilian-owned rifles through their courses, which are generally high-volume environments.

The trainers from those companies are generally witness to trends in performance; if you have been in training courses yourself you are probably aware that it's not difficult to notice if somebody is having issues with their gun, and since the whole course is populated with "gun guys" you all find out very quickly what the gun that's giving issues is.

THEREFORE: guys who are used to being in high-volume shooting environments typically know firsthand what guns stand up, and what guns die. There is not a mathematical standard applied; there is a relative standard applied: A Stag N8 will survive a typical course with no issues in 99% of cases. An XCR will survive a typical course with no issues in some cases, and give the shooter fits in many cases.

There is no real need to overthink the thing...some guns hold up, some guns don't. Some guns run, some fail repeatedly. Personally I just choose not to bother with guns that repeatedly fail.
 
I really like the design and ergonomics of the XCR, it is a fantastic concept.

That said I've seen 3 XCRs on courses and not one held up. 2 of the rifles fell apart and the third had constant malfunctions. In contrast I've never seen a VZ58 type fail or any other rifle to be honest. I've had a few C7s fail but that's a whole other matter.
 
Mine:

- Model: XCR-L . Tool less gas system, newer trigger

- Caliber: .223

- Trigger: New Style

- Round count at break: ~400

- Issue: None. I lost a linchpin, but that was because I didn't install it properly after removing for cleaning.

- How many FTF/FTE: 0%

Total Round Count: Lost count around 3000
 
Last edited:
fugawi said:
Well if you're using kit for high volume use punching holes in paper for recreation or competition then by all means go with an AR. Its probably the best, most versatile and cost effective platform for strictly a range gun.

If you in the military in the sandbox or wherever - you're using whatever you're issued.

If you want to hunt with your black rifle then XCR might be the choice depending on how deep your wallet. Swissarms, Tavor maybe OK for coyote but not in .223 for deer or bigger -then you have to look for a larger caliber and that brings us back to the XCR and a few other black rifles.

Just remember the AR platform has had a long development to get the kinks worked out. XCR has no where near that time (and money) invested. The original platform (M16) was notorious for problems when first introduced.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Like you say, the XCR fits a Canadian niche market well. It is also a long way from being a complete design. So long as people understand the design trade offs Robarm chose going in, they might be happy with it.

I originally went XCR when they were first brought in. I wanted a high volume all weather range plinker, as well as a coyote gun. I had tried a variety of semis, including the SA, and SA "sniper", but in the end went back to a bolt gun, or m14 for hunting depending on the weather. And an AR, bolt gun, and M14 for range competition.
 
redivivus,

I was going to respond but misanthropist beat me to it and explained it well.

I consider high volume burst and auto and semi-auto fire in the 500 to 1000 rounds per gun, per training day.
Very high volume fire is 1000 or more per day.

Not sure if the LE variants of the XCR are made in burst or auto modes but it is with those guns and hi-cap mags, that get guns really hot and worked hard. From my experience with the XCR I don't think they would stand up very good to that kind of usage.

As misanthropist has said, instructors on courses (as well as students) know what stands up and what doesn't and sorry this is only experienced based not scientific.
I for one rely a great deal on experience.

Rich
 
Rich LPS said:
redivivus,

I was going to respond but misanthropist beat me to it and explained it well.

I consider high volume burst and auto and semi-auto fire in the 500 to 1000 rounds per gun, per training day.
Very high volume fire is 1000 or more per day.

Not sure if the LE variants of the XCR are made in burst or auto modes but it is with those guns and hi-cap mags, that get guns really hot and worked hard. From my experience with the XCR I don't think they would stand up very good to that kind of usage.

As misanthropist has said, instructors on courses (as well as students) know what stands up and what doesn't and sorry this is only experienced based not scientific.
I for one rely a great deal on experience.

Rich
Click to expand...

Thx. That helps. I was hoping that there were controlled studies that had been carried out that would enable us to decisively conclude if indeed the XCR is a more or less reliable platform than the AR. The cycling inter-tube rumor mill can get a bit tiring sometimes.

FWIW, based on my experience, and I keep detailed logs for all my firearms, I have not seen any advantage in reliability between all the "black" rifles I own. They have all been, within a few FTF/FTEs, very close to each other when adjusted for the rounds fired and I would be hard pressed, based on the data I have collected, to declare a particular rifle the "winner" on the reliability scale. I just feel there is not enough (in this instance) to separate the two!
 
I'm not entirely sold on the M16FOW but I will put money on them being in general superior to the XCR.

My Norc M4gery has over 1200rds, never cleaned, one course and not one failure of any kind. It cost about 1/4 the XCR.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom