Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last

stencollector said:
Why not just get one of the mk2 bayonets? IMA has them for about $50.

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If you go down to the events listings, You'll find the fun shoot details. http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213270
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I had never seen one before now.
I wonder if numric's still have sten barrels?
they used to have 7" barrels with treads on the muzzle & original barrels.
 
Numrich will not send you a Sten barrel. All barrels are subject to export controls. Machine gun parts are specifically regulated for export from the US.
If you want a barrel, you will have to either find an original in this country, or make one.
I remember in the '60s, Hercules Sales on Yonge St. in Toronto had a bucket full of these bayonets for sale. I bought a few and sold them through Shotgun News for a nice profit. This was long before anyone thought about reproductions; I assume that they were originals. If so, they were far rarer than I suspected at the time.
 
hedgehog said:
for the one shot sten idea, why not ad a secondary spring , smaller in diameter that would absorb some energy at the end of the bolts travel. have it sized to fit inside the "tit" on the cap.
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That will cure the problem of the bolt coming back too far, but that is the lesser of the two problems. The biggest problem is one of safety, as described in the extract I gave from the SMG pam. There is the possibility of a ruptured case when you slam fire the sten.
 
tiriaq said:
Numrich will not send you a Sten barrel. All barrels are subject to export controls. Machine gun parts are specifically regulated for export from the US.
If you want a barrel, you will have to either find an original in this country, or make one.
I remember in the '60s, Hercules Sales on Yonge St. in Toronto had a bucket full of these bayonets for sale. I bought a few and sold them through Shotgun News for a nice profit. This was long before anyone thought about reproductions; I assume that they were originals. If so, they were far rarer than I suspected at the time.
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I guess I should of got 1 or 2 in the old days before that idiot Axworthy brokered a deal with washington. I use to buy barrels from there.
We used to get all kinds of stuff for gunsmith school out of there.
I bought FN. heavy barrels, 358 whelan barrels etc.
lots of goodie's
Army supplus in Wpg. had a bucket of spike bayonets too. 99 cents each, they said "good for tent pegs" man o man, what we didn't know then!

Can a private citizen in the US. send parts up here?
 
SGTMAJSTEVE said:
Army supplus in Wpg. had a bucket of spike bayonets too. 99 cents each, they said "good for tent pegs" man o man, what we didn't know then!

Can a private citizen in the US. send parts up here?
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If you are talking about Lee Enfield spike bayonets, they can still be had for $2 each, so they would not be as good an investment as the Sten bayonets.

A private citizen can send parts up here, but they also have to fall within the regulations of the US. That means no barrels, bolts, slides or frames.

9mm barrel blank is available up here. It is no big deal to spin out 3 sten barrels from 1 blank.
 
The bayonets at Hercules I mentionned were the Sten bayonets like the one in Stencollector's photo. I, too, have seen the buckets of No. 4 rifle bayonets being sold cheap enough to use as tent pegs.
Somewhere I have a Crown Surplus Sales catalogue listing LB Sten parts. They had no bolts, barrels or magazine housings. They had everything else, including brand new main casings. These were $15.
US export controls on machine gun parts apply to all exports, commercial or private. A private citizen sending you a care package would be taking a real chance.
 
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tiriaq said:
The bayonets at Hercules I mentionned were the Sten bayonets like the one in Stencollector's photo. I, too, have seen the buckets of No. 4 rifle bayonets being sold cheap enough to use as tent pegs.
Somewhere I have a Crown Surplus Sales catalogue listing LB Sten parts. They had no bolts, barrels or magazine housings. They had everything else, including brand new main casings. These were $15.
US export controls on machine gun parts apply to all exports, commercial or private. A private citizen sending you a care package would be taking a real chance.
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Yea I hear. most of my family live in the US. The bayonets were enfield bayonets. but enfield bayonets were the same for MKV stens I though?
 
The end of a Mk. V barrel has the same lugs for the front sight and bayonet as a No. 4 rifle, so any bayonet that would fit a No. 4 will fit a Mk. V.
 
Well, I AM an engineer! :)

There's more at play than bolt tension. The added inertia of the hammer and the friction of the bolt acting on the guide rods also helps overcome the enhanced rearward thrust from the recoil impulse in that design.
 
Spencer said:
"From CFP 317-1, the Sub-MAchine Gun, 9mm C1
a. if a round is hand-chambered and the breech block is released onto it, the case will be stationary and the bolt nearly so when firing occurs. This will result in rearward breech block velocity nearly twice the normal, and greatly increases the chance of a burst case.
With regard to b this can happen in any sten regardless of how a round is chambered.
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Shouldn't adding sufficient weight to the STEN bolt, allow chamber pressures to drop low enough before the bolt begins rearward travel?
 
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A Sten chamber is tapered. I have no idea how the dimensions compare with a C1 chamber, but the Sten does not have a straight chamber. According to Turpin, the designer of the Sten, it uses API. Cannot see that there is any fundamental difference in functionning between a C1 and a Sten. Both employ API, both depend on breechblock mass. Recoil springs tend to have more effect on cyclic rate than on retardation of opening.
A closed bolt blowback firearm really depends on breechblock mass to resist blowback; an open bolt system has the advantage of the foreward inertial mass. Now, there is no reason to believe that API occurs at exctly the same point of the cylce, every shot. There is going to be variation, because of primer sensitivity, fouling, etc. This is probably why Stencollector has noticed evidence of battering on the Sten components with which the tail of the bolt makes contact. High speed camera recording has shown that the cyclic rate of a machinegun can vary during the course of a burst. There are variables which preclude absolute uniformity.
 
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Weapontech said:
Shouldn't adding sufficient weight to the STEN bolt, allow chamber pressures to drop low enough before the bolt begins rearward travel?
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I thought of that too. Adding lead to the hole that's bored down the centre of the bolt should be simple enough, don't know if it would be sufficient but it would certainly help.
 
That cobray shotgun is kinda cool.
But none of these guns are as much fun since the 5rd. mag. laws windy & kimmie stuck us with.
WHAT DIFFERANCE DOES IT MAKE ON A RANGE???? :slap:

Canada should of do the same thing as the US. did, 5 rd's for hunting, whatever on the range.
It was just one more way the liberal feminazi's stuck it to us, Again!!! :sniper:
 
From the look of the photos, the Cobray has a moving barrel, not a moving bolt. Same operating principle as the Philipine/Richardson, only it uses a spring to drive the barrel.
The early versions of the Atchison shotgun, with open bolt and fixed firing pin probably has about the heaviest bolt used in this sort of gun, and it would still employ API. There are quite a number of blowback 9mm designs, but they all use a closed bolt and moving firing pin, to control the timing of ignition.
Moving barrel, blow foreward systems have been around for a long time, the little Schwarzlose pocket pistol is the earliest that comes to mind.
US 5 rd magazine capacity laws are state level hunting regulations, not federal, except for 3 round migratory bird limit resulting from international treaty. With the expiry of the AWB, federal magazine capacity rules vanished.
Back to the Sten topic, for a moment. An inspected and approved open bolt system would provide for the most accurate reproduction. I still think the MP3008 design is the closest approved system available. Doubt that Marstar would make one available for study, so that lower cost versions could be made. Stencollector took the time and trouble to get the SAS system approved, and therefore a viable option, and anyone interested in a Stennish repro. owes him a big thank you.
 
Spencer said:
If anything I think the exact opposite would more likely be the case. The spring would in theory push the bolt slower rather than faster due to the extra weight.
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The momentum of the heavier bolt would be greater. I don't think it will cause any damage to the gun. Certainly no more than the SAS puts up with since it closes the bolt (using heavier springs than original) with every shot. And since You'll be hand feeding cartridges into it, I suspect it will never see thousands of rounds through it.

I thought about your idea of welding a sten magazine into it for just the one round. But sten mags are a ##### to load in the first place, I couldn't imagine trying to sneak a round into it through the ejection port. Now the feed lips from a sterling would be a different story, since you can press the round right through the lips. Situated properly, a sterling mag would work in the sten.

I don't know if you have ever had a sten bolt close on your fingertip, but the first time you do, you'll be double cautious.
 
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