Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last
- Thread starter stencollector
- Start date
Not to be pedantic but how does that pic plainly illustrate that gun was built as a semi-auto?
You know I want to make some comment about this not making any sense at all but I forgot we are dealing an entire law that doesn't make any sense.
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
Spencer, if you do get your Sten registered properly (for good), you'll open the way for many other Mk3 SAS for sure! Even though it won't be historically accurate, I'd make one with an 18½ '' bbl and a fake silencer (Unless being legally possible to have a shorter bbl as the total lenght of an 18½ inches bbled Sten will be more than 23 inches.
Well, Lets see how it all come to be. I'm a patient man
J. Savoie
A shorter barrel should be O.K. after all you not cutting it down from it's original lenth! You can buy a Winchester 94 with a 16' barrel or 12 ga. shotguns with 12" barrels from the factory & there not restricted,
all legal in Canada, as long as there 27/1/2" in total lenth.
The law says you can't cut a firearm barrel to a lenth of less than 18", but you can have a shorter barrel lenth as long as you didn't cut it down. the
18 1/2 in minimum lenth only apply's to center fire-semi auto that is not restricted.
If your building a gun from sratch then it's an original!
I had a 9mm AR., It came with a 16" barrel, so it was restricted, but back then (BEFORE KIMIE) I silver soldered a 3" muzzel brake on the end giving me a 19" barrel. It's was then changed to non restricted, and I could take it out to the bush to plink.
Then later on they changed the law for some stupid reason
( probably some eastern Liberal Politician ) so that it became restricted again.
Then later on all AR.'s became restricted.
But aparently you can change to a shorted barrel but not cut it down!!
For all the sense that make's. unless you sell barrels I guess!
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SGTMAJSTEVE
This is really interesting .
Now I wonder : Could a Minuteman SMG be turned into a Sten Mk3 SAS in .45 calibre? We already know that a SAS3 bolt is a possible thing to build providing we have a lathe and at least a milling attachment. From there, building the same but to accept a .45 ACP round SHOULD be possible too, right? And modifying the extractor, the ejector and mag housing like those of the minuteman drawing already available and using GREASEGUN mags SHOULD also be possible, shouldn't it?
Just curious ...
J. Savoie
This is really interesting
.Now I wonder : Could a Minuteman SMG be turned into a Sten Mk3 SAS in .45 calibre? We already know that a SAS3 bolt is a possible thing to build providing we have a lathe and at least a milling attachment. From there, building the same but to accept a .45 ACP round SHOULD be possible too, right? And modifying the extractor, the ejector and mag housing like those of the minuteman drawing already available and using GREASEGUN mags SHOULD also be possible, shouldn't it?
Just curious ...
J. Savoie
A .45 cal blowback requires a much heavier bolt than a Sten bolt. I have a Grease Gun and its bolt is quite a bit larger than the Sten bolt. So it is a bit more complicated than just building bits to "accept" the larger round.
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
What if a person just built a sten or grease gun from scratch?
All totaly new parts, there's not much fancy work involved. maybe use one of those semi auto kits you guys talk about. but use a 19" barrel.
Sarco used to sell sten blank kits with all the cuts outlined but not cut. Anyone with a dremel could of built one,
you'dd just need the bolt,barrel & mags.
What would happen?
All totaly new parts, there's not much fancy work involved. maybe use one of those semi auto kits you guys talk about. but use a 19" barrel.
Sarco used to sell sten blank kits with all the cuts outlined but not cut. Anyone with a dremel could of built one,
you'dd just need the bolt,barrel & mags.
What would happen?
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
Well I'm talking legaly! would you get away with it? How would it be classed?I give up. What would happen ?
would it be restricted or prohib. or unrestricted?
Or would the Liberal Gastapo bust your door down!
and if I made it in .45 would the gun nazi's still say it's a veriration of something?
I could put the cocking handle on the left, The mag in a different location.
make it look different to any other model.
Really there's no end to what you could do.
Unless it is a reproduction of a named prohib, a newly made firearm is just a firearm, and should be restricted or non-restricted. Unless it fails RCMP inspection, and is determined to be prohib, in which case its going to be forfeit. If it is semiauto centrefire, it will be restricted if the barrel length is under 18 1/2" inches, non-restricted if it is over that.
In order to register a new firearm, of a type that has not been registered previously, a FRT number must be created. A verifier cannot do that, the number comes from the RCMP in Ottawa. If there is already a FRT number, then the firearm would have to be verified, to insure that it is a match for the existing FRT entry, and it should be possible for a verifier to do this.
If the firearm is something like a caplock muzzleloader or a DeHaas Chicopee single shot .22, the RCMP aren't likely going to want to have the firearm submitted for inspection. If it were something like a semi auto version of the Minuteman submachinegun, I would expect that the RCMP are going to want it in their lab. for inspection and testing.
The saga of Stencollector's SAS3 is detailed in this thread. The next SAS3 to be registered should get into the system much more smoothly.
Once the process is completed with Spencer's build, and a FRT entry created and a registration certificate issued, that will be a recognized firearm type.
SGYMAJSTEVE - there have been many sets of parts from many different demilled guns sold in the US. Our very own Marstar has been a major supplier of these parts sets. The completion kits sold have been of two types - 80% receivers that could be used to make a legal or illegal machinegun, depending on the legal status of the maker, or an 80% receiver for a US law compliant semi auto. If you go to .1919a4.com or .weaponeer.net, you will find lots of information about making legal versions in the US. The procedures and requirements described on these sites are US specific, of course. Some of these, like the semi auto 1919s are recognized in Canada. Others have never appeared on this side of the border, so would require creation of a FRT entry.
In order to register a new firearm, of a type that has not been registered previously, a FRT number must be created. A verifier cannot do that, the number comes from the RCMP in Ottawa. If there is already a FRT number, then the firearm would have to be verified, to insure that it is a match for the existing FRT entry, and it should be possible for a verifier to do this.
If the firearm is something like a caplock muzzleloader or a DeHaas Chicopee single shot .22, the RCMP aren't likely going to want to have the firearm submitted for inspection. If it were something like a semi auto version of the Minuteman submachinegun, I would expect that the RCMP are going to want it in their lab. for inspection and testing.
The saga of Stencollector's SAS3 is detailed in this thread. The next SAS3 to be registered should get into the system much more smoothly.
Once the process is completed with Spencer's build, and a FRT entry created and a registration certificate issued, that will be a recognized firearm type.
SGYMAJSTEVE - there have been many sets of parts from many different demilled guns sold in the US. Our very own Marstar has been a major supplier of these parts sets. The completion kits sold have been of two types - 80% receivers that could be used to make a legal or illegal machinegun, depending on the legal status of the maker, or an 80% receiver for a US law compliant semi auto. If you go to .1919a4.com or .weaponeer.net, you will find lots of information about making legal versions in the US. The procedures and requirements described on these sites are US specific, of course. Some of these, like the semi auto 1919s are recognized in Canada. Others have never appeared on this side of the border, so would require creation of a FRT entry.
SGTMAJSTEVE
Regular
That makes sence they way I understood it too. The Sarco kit I was refering to was just metal tubes & pieces, diagramed to cut, but not done yet.
It was all new metal. you just needed to get a bolt, barrel & mag.
I don't know if they still have them. this was a few yrs ago.
But it's a shame we have to go to such lenth's to build firearms ourselves just because of some stupid red tape! when we're all licensed law biding citizens that just love to enjoy the great shooting heritage!
It was all new metal. you just needed to get a bolt, barrel & mag.
I don't know if they still have them. this was a few yrs ago.
But it's a shame we have to go to such lenth's to build firearms ourselves just because of some stupid red tape! when we're all licensed law biding citizens that just love to enjoy the great shooting heritage!
Most of the 80% Sten tubes sold in the US are dimensionned like an original. i.e, trouble waiting to happen. The SAS tubes and kits are strictly BATFE compliant for an approved design of semi auto build. The Stone Ax Engineering version is another design which can keep a builder out of hot water in the US. US law is different, of course. But one of the reasons that the semi auto 1919A4s and MG34s could be imported and sold here is because they were seriously redesigned for semi auto only and received BATFE approval. One of the biggest differences between US and Cdn. practice is that in the US, a rewelded demilled to spec. receiver, altered to semi, is acceptable. Here, recycling a demilled receiver is not acceptable, and a gun so made will be classed as a 12(3) prohib, if semi auto.
Some folks scratch build airplanes or steam engines. It is just a matter of time, skill, access to the right tools and materials, and the determination to see the project to completion.
Some folks scratch build airplanes or steam engines. It is just a matter of time, skill, access to the right tools and materials, and the determination to see the project to completion.
SGTMAJSTEVE was commenting on the US Sarco kits, so reference to the US situation is appropriate.
Recycling demilled receivers doesn't wash in Canada, although it is acceptable practice in the US. Reuse of receiver parts could result in a firearm being ruled a 12(2) or (3) prohib.
Using Stencollector's FRT for registering your gun would have required falsifying your application, because his FRT number is specific to a SAS3, not just to a Mk. II, and your gun is most definitely not either.
Once you have a FRT number for your gun, it could be useful to any anyone making a Mk.III open bolt clone. It would not be useful for anyone making a Mk.III clone with the SAS or Stone Ax operating systems. FRT entires are very specific. For example, if you consider original Mk. II guns, there are different FRT numbers for BSAs, Fazakerleys, Theales, and Long Branches. There are different FRT numbers for CA versions of these, as well.
Recycling demilled receivers doesn't wash in Canada, although it is acceptable practice in the US. Reuse of receiver parts could result in a firearm being ruled a 12(2) or (3) prohib.
Using Stencollector's FRT for registering your gun would have required falsifying your application, because his FRT number is specific to a SAS3, not just to a Mk. II, and your gun is most definitely not either.
Once you have a FRT number for your gun, it could be useful to any anyone making a Mk.III open bolt clone. It would not be useful for anyone making a Mk.III clone with the SAS or Stone Ax operating systems. FRT entires are very specific. For example, if you consider original Mk. II guns, there are different FRT numbers for BSAs, Fazakerleys, Theales, and Long Branches. There are different FRT numbers for CA versions of these, as well.
They weren't applying to register it; you were. You know full well that your gun is entirely different than Stencollector's. You would be knowingly falsifying an application to register.
Let's wait until the techs. in Ottawa have inspected your gun, and have decided on whether or not a FRT number will be issued.
Let's wait until the techs. in Ottawa have inspected your gun, and have decided on whether or not a FRT number will be issued.
No I was not applying to register it, I was applying for an FRT number for a MKIII.
Of course I know it's different, this is why I reminded them that my sten is not a MKII. I would never falsify anything, I am totally above board and squeaky clean.
Several people here seem to have trouble understanding this but never the less I will try to explain it again. I will NEVER send my sten to Ottawa.
An FRT number is part of the registration. A registration certificate won't be issued until there is a FRT number.
Not only is your gun not a Mk. II, it is not an SAS3, and that is the only firearm to which Stencollector's FRT number would apply.
If the RCMP decide that they wish to inspect your gun, it will go to Ottawa to be inspected. If you refuse to send it, it will be collected, and sent to Ottawa. It may be Officer Friendly who drops by to pick it up, or it may be NWEST. If there is an impasse, a registration certificate will not be issued, and that will create an interesting legal situation involving an unregistered restricted firearm. It is no secret that this board is monitored. I know for a fact that at least one Firearm Officer is aware of this thread. Aren't you perhaps waving a red flag in front of a bull?
Don't attach too much importance to what a verifier can do. A verifier can inspect a firearm and determine if there is a matching FRT entry. If there is no matching entry, the verifier's role has ended, and it will be up to the good folks in Ottawa to identify the firearm and create a FRT number.
Have you applied to register the gun yet?
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I agree a verifier can ONLY match it to a frt that allready exists
yous is not a sas Nor a mk2 stencollectors frt# can NOT apply legally to your gun
they are very picky about exact matches when it comes to frt #'s
Bottom line is the rcmp firearms unit in ottawa are the only ones who can say yes or no your cfo or local verifier cannot
the only way its 100% approved is to submit it to ottawa and have it tested/examined by them
untill then your standing on very thin ice
yous is not a sas Nor a mk2 stencollectors frt# can NOT apply legally to your gun
they are very picky about exact matches when it comes to frt #'s
Bottom line is the rcmp firearms unit in ottawa are the only ones who can say yes or no your cfo or local verifier cannot
the only way its 100% approved is to submit it to ottawa and have it tested/examined by them
untill then your standing on very thin ice
A small correction - there are no more "private" verifyers. The only non-CFC verifyers now are those in the employ of licensed firearms businesses.
