SHTF Rifle - Ideas

[Soyoman1980]

Kel-Tec SU-16, .223 semi-auto, accepts AR style mags, accepts any optic with Pic style mounts/rings, foldable stock let's you back-pack it, all but the bolt, barrel and ak style gas/piston assembly are polymer so it's lightweight allowing the carry of additional ammo. It can also be reconfigured to a more AR-15 style platform at the cost of being able to fold and store it in a pack.

Downside, the polymer receiver may not hold up in cold weather conditions under repeated use and the barrel is fairly thin so accuracy or barrel warping under repeated use could be an issue. But for a non-restricted .223 semi-auto, it's a good SHTF rifle in a pinch.

Now if availability and price are not an issue, AR-15 or AK action rifles all the way.

 

[C77]

Just to keep this on the rails, please remember that promoting or apearing to promote illegal activity is against the rules:

Any discussion and/or promotion of illegal activities. Moderators and site admin will use their best judgement in situations of legal ambiguity, or situations that may lead to legal risk exposure for www.canadiangunnutz.com.

The following topics will not be tolerated. Violation will result in immediate and permanent suspension. Some quasi legal/ grey/downright illegal examples that are specifically not tolerated are:

1. Shipping and driving items to Canada from the US that require US export permit.

2. Discharging firearms in places where firearms are not allowed to be discharged.

3. Manufacture or use of flammable and explosive substances or “tracer” projectiles.

4. Unblocking 5 rd magazines to regular capacity.

5. Swapping non-restricted barrel for restricted barrel at gun range.

6. Home made firearms with illegal or misleading markings. For example, marking a chunk of metal with "Valmet 78".

7. Solicitation of unregistered firearms or magazine kits.

8. No postings of any materials that could be likely considered as investment advices. Investments include financial instruements, real estates and anything deemed to be reasonable by the operator of CGN.

 

[evolture]

Thinking about SHTF rifles or bug out rifles is weird to me. If I had to bug out for some reason, in Canada where it is often freezing, raining, snowing, etc. I just think most people would die from exposure and end up with a frozen rifle in their hands like that guy from the movie Jeremiah Johnson.

And if it is some sort of Bosnia SHTF scenario and I need thousands of rounds of ammo for constant fire fights where I don't die for some reason (like some sort of A-team episode???), then I didn't bug out properly. In my mind you should be as far away from anything like that as possible.

 

[667]

Looking for everyone's opinion on a Canadian bug out rifle.

I'm thinking something non-restricted, chambered for .223/5.56,
.

If its truly SHTF you're worried about why care about restricted/non restricted..?

It's SHTF man..!

 

[heckler]

What makes you think that?? When S#@ts going down and people are running for their lives you think the rcmp is gonna be like "okay guys, time to go round up every restricted firearm in the country" not gonna happen

I don't know,....Ask the residents of High River. It seems the RCMP were right on top of that scenario.

If there was a movement towards a mass confiscation prior to all-out SHTF, I think things would deteriorate fairly quickly. What I mean to say is when one area is targeted for confiscation, it will not take long for that word to travel. I would not expect the entire country and every firearms owner would have a cop,(confiscation crew) on their doorstep at once. There are not enough resources for such an act. Besides that the "gov't " or lack there of will have bigger fish to fry than a few armed citizens. Look at the pandemonium created when the grocery store shelves get a little empty of essentials (Summer 2013 in AB).

I was shocked to say the least how quickly people became ill behaved and animalistic when there was no water, milk bread etc.. for sale in stores. Even ATM machines were limiting the Amt. of cash you could withdraw from your Acct.
We are overly controlled and most are quite vulnerable.

 

[Gin]

I agree, .22lr.... the bug out rifle i'd build, well, couldnt be talked about openly in a public forum.... LOL.

.223, second, for sure, followed by .308. Gotta stay NATO!

Gotta stay NATO. What do you think the U.S DHS bought a billion rounds of last year?? I bet 5.56 was high on the list of calibres they purchased, if not #1. 9mm & 7.62x51 are up there as well I'm sure.
That's what would consistently be floating around throughout a SHTF scenario. The public stash is far larger than any prepper could dream of.

I think .22lr & 12ga would be important as well for hunting additionally. And 9mm & .308 for secondaries & precision rifles respectively.
But .223 is going to be your bread & butter. If it's standard for everyone else, it has to be your standard. That also means the magazine should be our available standard STANAG-style. Optimally your weapon would be standard, but that's where we run into our problem.

 

[Gin]

I don't know,....Ask the residents of High River. It seems the RCMP were right on top of that scenario.

If there was a movement towards a mass confiscation prior to all-out SHTF, I think things would deteriorate fairly quickly. What I mean to say is when one area is targeted for confiscation, it will not take long for that word to travel. I would not expect the entire country and every firearms owner would have a cop,(confiscation crew) on their doorstep at once. There are not enough resources for such an act. Besides that the "gov't " or lack there of will have bigger fish to fry than a few armed citizens. Look at the pandemonium created when the grocery store shelves get a little empty of essentials (Summer 2013 in AB).

I was shocked to say the least how quickly people became ill behaved and animalistic when there was no water, milk bread etc.. for sale in stores. Even ATM machines were limiting the Amt. of cash you could withdraw from your Acct.
We are overly controlled and most are quite vulnerable.

They say we're 9 meals from pandemonium. I see government publications pushing the 72hr kits often, and still not nearly enough people are prepared.

 

[NoTarget]

Or, just because no one else mentioned it, the Mossberg MVP.

The downside to the MVP is the non-chrome lined barrel.

 

[Gin]

Kel-Tec SU-16, .223 semi-auto, accepts AR style mags, accepts any optic with Pic style mounts/rings, foldable stock let's you back-pack it, all but the bolt, barrel and ak style gas/piston assembly are polymer so it's lightweight allowing the carry of additional ammo. It can also be reconfigured to a more AR-15 style platform at the cost of being able to fold and store it in a pack.

Downside, the polymer receiver may not hold up in cold weather conditions under repeated use and the barrel is fairly thin so accuracy or barrel warping under repeated use could be an issue. But for a non-restricted .223 semi-auto, it's a good SHTF rifle in a pinch.

Now if availability and price are not an issue, AR-15 or AK action rifles all the way.

The SU-16 theoretically is the perfect choice. It seems that's what it was designed for, a U.S civilian survival rifle, very affordable down there I'm sure.
It just looks rickety to me, I'd be interested in finding out how the polymer fares. The AR-style kits would be nice for consistency. The piston-system would give the lightweight rifle some weight in the front end and keep it clean and sure-functioning.

 

[Gin]

Thinking about SHTF rifles or bug out rifles is weird to me. If I had to bug out for some reason, in Canada where it is often freezing, raining, snowing, etc. I just think most people would die from exposure and end up with a frozen rifle in their hands like that guy from the movie Jeremiah Johnson.

And if it is some sort of Bosnia SHTF scenario and I need thousands of rounds of ammo for constant fire fights where I don't die for some reason (like some sort of A-team episode???), then I didn't bug out properly. In my mind you should be as far away from anything like that as possible.

Agreed. You want to put as much distance between you and trouble as possible.

 

[thump_rrr]

If non restricted is the primary concern then I would forget about all the other NR options and just get a Norinco M305.
Yes it is a .308 but it can take care of any problem 2 or 4 legged you may encounter.
The difference in $$$ you can put it towards ammo for more practice.
I've handled the type 97 yesterday and there are too many ergonomic issues for me to get over if I were to go from an AR or M14 that I would be dead on the first reload in a SHTF situation.

Without a $2,000-$3,000 budget you're stuck going restricted if you want to remain with .223.

You can also go SKS or 858 and remain NR with a low cost and good ammo availability if you have no objection to 7.62x39.

 

[kb007]

I think to be on the safe side you should have 2, 1 for you and 1 for your significant other. I'm partial to a 7.62 X 39 for myself, with perhaps something like the mossberg mvp for the wife.

 

[Johnnyjellybean]

If it's truly a SHTF scenario, then who cares if it's non-restricted or restricted?? In the $1200 range , you have the Sig M400 enhanced.

(Mine'as arriving today!!!) If you need it to be non-restricted, then save a few bucks more and buy a XCR. That would be the last one I would part with out of ALL my stuff.

 

[Brian46]

And if it is some sort of Bosnia SHTF scenario and I need thousands of rounds of ammo for constant fire fights where I don't die for some reason (like some sort of A-team episode???), then I didn't bug out properly. In my mind you should be as far away from anything like that as possible.

if you manage to last in a shtf scenario eventualy someone will find you and then people will come to take what you have since you have supplies to survive, a firefight will happen, just a matter of when, not if.

 

[J996]

You really want to hump around with a thousand rds in a rucksack?

Yes.

 

[Bigdigs]

The problem imho when it comes to this (i.e. SHTF \ CDN firearms laws etc), is that what is a SHTF? and more importantly when? It's not like a SHTF is going to be scheduled for a Tues morning at 0800hrs. It could be host of different things, it could be local or regional. It could result in a law and order break down or just some laws not being enforced etc. What it will be is gradual.

Even the dreaded Zombie apocalypse would be in essence gradual. It would take time for the biters to spread so unless you happen to be at ground zero... and if you make it out alive,... the rest of society would be at best in denial about how bad it is,.. and you and maybe some others come waltzing into the unaffected areas (for now) haggard and lo and behold sporting restricteds or even prohibs. Society and the law enforcement agencies will try to preserve themselves no matter which version of a SHTF happens. Similarly in a complete break down of the rule of law,.. every magazine would be instantly unpinned,.. but if you have to interact (or potentially do so) you had better be sure such a stage has been reached or you'll be in a world of trouble. Even if the rule of law becomes extremely tenuous,... if it stabilizes (or starts to) right around the time you are being spotted with the above.. ouch. Or alternatively you thought the SHTF was worse than it is or was of a larger scope - again, ouch. While one could probably make a good defence for moving restricteds during the High River floods, it would only be so, if steps were taken to securely transport them etc (which discounts most applications of theorizing SHTF scenarios). Moving on:

For .223\5.56
On a low budget : Mini-14 - esp a wood stocked one - Bad is the proprietary mags but NR, and a heck of a lot less likely to freak out via silhouette other people or even jumpy LEOs.
Alternatively a T97: Bad is its silhouette but bullpup versatility and reliability *should* be okay,... time will tell.
Higher budget would be a Tavor: - esp one in FDE - They look a heck of a lot less 'evil' to nervouse nellies than the black versions, imho.
Optimal would be a nice AR...... but back to that restricted thing.....

 

[cr5]

Just to keep this on the rails, please remember that promoting or apearing to promote illegal activity is against the rules:

Any discussion and/or promotion of illegal activities. Moderators and site admin will use their best judgement in situations of legal ambiguity, or situations that may lead to legal risk exposure for www.canadiangunnutz.com.

The following topics will not be tolerated. Violation will result in immediate and permanent suspension. Some quasi legal/ grey/downright illegal examples that are specifically not tolerated are:

1. Shipping and driving items to Canada from the US that require US export permit.

2. Discharging firearms in places where firearms are not allowed to be discharged.

3. Manufacture or use of flammable and explosive substances or “tracer” projectiles.

4. Unblocking 5 rd magazines to regular capacity.

5. Swapping non-restricted barrel for restricted barrel at gun range.

6. Home made firearms with illegal or misleading markings. For example, marking a chunk of metal with "Valmet 78".

7. Solicitation of unregistered firearms or magazine kits.

8. No postings of any materials that could be likely considered as investment advices. Investments include financial instruements, real estates and anything deemed to be reasonable by the operator of CGN.

Number 3. Since when are tracer projectiles illegal in Canada? I've bought loaded 7.62x39 tracer rounds from retailers in the past?

 

[lockon223]

This is a really good thread, should this be gradual I do have my AR-180B which has been reliable, light-weight, and accurate with irons or optics.
If I had to grab and go with no worry of restricted or non-restricted, I would no doubt grab my AR-15

 

[Striker33]

I have a ethos on this. It is simple. The best gun for these scenarios is the one in your hand at that time. I personally lean to a 10/22 and mossberg 500, with M305 and SKS as alternates. The 10/22 has huge capacity mags that are LEGAL!!!! which allows sustained suppressive fire. The 10/22 can be fired extended periods without cleaning... you can pack 1000's of rounds easily, and is reliable. Each of these guns is VERY common with ample parts. The M305 and SKS have surplus ammo available. My opinion, with those 4 guns, you have better chances in the long run. PLUS... all are cheap investments, which leaves meat on the bones for other preparations (bug out locations, food storage, water storage and filtration, supplemental shelter systems, and transportation)

 

[667]

My bet is that if SHTF so bad that y'needs to arm up...

It'll be more like SFTP...


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