Sig550 Vs Xcr

I think they are both fabulous firearms. Fit and finish of the Swiss rifle (like a Swiss watch) does supercede that of the XCR, however; for me personally form follows function, and they both function very well. If I have a desire for outstanding “fit and finish” I will buy a Purdy! They are both accurate and they are both reliable and I would not be disappointed with owning either. It is personal preference!

I personally prefer the XCR but the Lar 10 mags and the ability to switch to “Big Game” hunting calibers and the no need for mounts and the much cheaper price were influencing factors for me. If these were not of concern to me I might be inclined to move toward the Swiss rifle with it’s more robust mags, and ergonomical folding stock. Again personal preference but supposing in a years time you decide you chose the wrong rifle, your choise would still be an awesome rifle, non-restricted and will be easy to sell or trade. Good luck on your choice!
 
a good friend of mine had a PE90. great rifle, not my cup of tea. Rock in plastic expensive mags. 1/10 barrel. heavy (same with XCR). The built in bipod is a nice touch. The funniest thing is they are all supposedly tested to 300m (I am 99.9% they are, and am 99.9% sure they very accurate guns), but why the #### is the target grouping a printout? we need Holes in paper, not ms paint on a target.
 
Most Swiss ranges have electronic scoring and CCTV at the target end. This means they don't have to schlock out to the target to score it, they just print it out at the firing point end. This is helpful when the firing point is on one side of a valley and the targets are on the other - 300m between the two but a click or so down and up, and with a freeway running between the two. An average Swiss range makes our facilities look primitive.
 
Yeah, there is something oddly satisfying about a piece of 'foreign' paper with holes in it, and trying to do better than the factory guy :D
 
Obviously there are different levels of what we see and expect out of a new rifle. Additionally, there is enough negative personal experience out there with the XCRs to draw a reasonable conclusion to what you are really getting from one. If you doubt any of this, look to the previous Robarms system they marketed.
The fact that I think the XCR is a failure hardly makes me a fanboy of the SAN guns.
However, I would question the opinion of anyone who thinks the XCR has a reliability and ergonomics advantage over the Sig.


The XCR has a huge Ergonomics advantage over the SIG. I will name them. Left side charging handle (unless of course if you are a lefty but most of us are rightys) no need to remove you eyes from the target when charging the rifle. Easy to reach bolt catch/release, easy to reach mag release, Free fall mags, Full length rail and quad rail system. Those are just to name a few.

Reliability is for the moment the thumbs up to the SIG but thats because it is a tried and tested design that has been a round for a while. Give the XCR some time to work things out in 10-15 years we will see where it is at.
 
The XCR has a huge Ergonomics advantage over the SIG. I will name them. Left side charging handle (unless of course if you are a lefty but most of us are rightys)
This is your personal issue and nothing more.
There are alot of platforms with the charging handles on either side.
I'm a lefty and I have no issues charging right side or left side charging handles. I've shot all of these right handed too, and have no issues.

no need to remove you eyes from the target when charging the rifle.
:confused: What the hell are you talking about? Why would one side make the difference over another?

Easy to reach bolt catch/release, easy to reach mag release, Free fall mags, Full length rail and quad rail system. Those are just to name a few.
Rails have nothing to do with ergonomics, and all of the controls on a Sig are easily reached. Free fall mags? yep, the Sigs will do that too if you know what you are doing....

Speaking of 'knowing what you're doing' You may want to consider your 'ergonomic advantages' as a training issue (ie. personal) and not stack it up against the rifle you are using...just a thought.

Reliability is for the moment the thumbs up to the SIG but thats because it is a tried and tested design that has been a round for a while. Give the XCR some time to work things out in 10-15 years we will see where it is at.

Yeah, I can see how you would compare a system that has gone through extensive testing, has been operationally deployed with militaries for what, about 30 years, and allow it to hold a reliability edge 'for the moment' over the XCR.
 
Free fall mags work for some training paradigms....

Some of us prefer to hold on to them.

AND... The PE90 will open beer bottles in the ejection port, like a true Swiss made product...

So THERE!!

Neal
 
I can understand someone who owns an XCR or whatever defending it and thinking it's the greatest gun ever.

But...

If you think that the XCR is even in the same league as the SAN rifles you are exposing yourself as an amateur. Plain and simple. You can ##### about the price of the SAN products all you want but they are one of the highest quality, most durable weapons ever produced. Amateur's usually don't have real world experience with weapons, they just read gun magazines and target shoot at the range.

I've heard alot of funny things on this form but XCR being in the same class as SAN rifles takes the cake.

Rich
 
This is your personal issue and nothing more.
There are alot of platforms with the charging handles on either side.
I'm a lefty and I have no issues charging right side or left side charging handles. I've shot all of these right handed too, and have no issues.

The point is that for right handed people, we do not have to take our hand off the pistol grip. How do you charge a right sided handle when you are holding the rifle in your right hand? Exactly! You switch hands. Right handed XCR owners don't have to do that. This is obvious for anyone who knows the definition of the word ergonomics and has held and XCR. The ergonomics are second to none.

Rails have nothing to do with ergonomics, and all of the controls on a Sig are easily reached. Free fall mags? yep, the Sigs will do that too if you know what you are doing....

The mag release is positioned perfectly for extending your index finger and lightly pressing the button. The mag falls out effortlessly without having to "know what you are doing." The bolt release is equally accessed with an extended index finger for leftys and rightys. All of the AR clones I have fired are too high. The XCR's placement is simply better.

Rails are not ergonomics, you're right. But they do help justify the price when compared to cheaper ARs that come with no special features and need $1000 of accessories until they are reasonable, or the SIG's which are already way more expensive and still don't come with these features.


Speaking of 'knowing what you're doing' You may want to consider your 'ergonomic advantages' as a training issue (ie. personal) and not stack it up against the rifle you are using...just a thought.[/quote]

So you have no problem with putting the mag release at the back of the buttstock? The safety under the muzzle break? Ergonomics are not training issues. They eliminate training issues. It makes controls intuitive like a good black rifle should be. Put things where they are expected and that match the functionality of the human frame and you've got a winner. The fact that I need to explain this to you makes me wonder if you "know what you are doing."

Yeah, I can see how you would compare a system that has gone through extensive testing, has been operationally deployed with militaries for what, about 30 years, and allow it to hold a reliability edge 'for the moment' over the XCR.

As I've said in other posts, show me the gun with the empty support thread. There are none. 30 years of development and every other AR out there comes out of the box just as ####ed up as the next. SIGs are no less. The QA is better for for SIG's but for an extra $800 I'm sure Robonson could give your rifle a very special "once over" ensuring absolutely no defects whatsoever.

Wow Beltfed, that is the biggest load of horse pucky I've seen flung here for weeks/months. Your posts clearly show that you fall into the Armedsask camp of XCR haters. Fine. Hate the gun. But be honest and reasonable in your posts. No one needs to hear made up #### from some guy who overstates his point to make up for the fact that he doesn't have any point to make.
 
The point is that for right handed people, we do not have to take our hand off the pistol grip. How do you charge a right sided handle when you are holding the rifle in your right hand? Exactly! You switch hands.
...or flip the rifle 90 degrees and charge with the left hand while maintaining control of the pistol grip with your right hand...but you already know that....

Right handed XCR owners don't have to do that. This is obvious for anyone who knows the definition of the word ergonomics and has held and XCR. The ergonomics are second to none.
Believe whatever you like....



The mag release is positioned perfectly for extending your index finger and lightly pressing the button. The mag falls out effortlessly without having to "know what you are doing."
...spoken like a man who has never in his life had to rip a magazine from the mag well...
So how is this an advantage to the Sig mag system?


The bolt release is equally accessed with an extended index finger for leftys and rightys. All of the AR clones I have fired are too high. The XCR's placement is simply better.
So you are saying the AR design has it all wrong? The Sig too?
I thought you were comparing it to the Sig? The Sig is an AR clone now?

Rails are not ergonomics, you're right. But they do help justify the price when compared to cheaper ARs that come with no special features and need $1000 of accessories until they are reasonable, or the SIG's which are already way more expensive and still don't come with these features.
I have yet to come across a Sig or an good quality (cheaper - that's rich:rolleyes:) AR that won't shoot out of the box.
When I purchase a rifle, my primary focus is on quality and durability, not add ons. The XCR is a rifle that should sell for well under a $1000, so how do you justify a $1000 rail?

So you have no problem with putting the mag release at the back of the buttstock? The safety under the muzzle break? Ergonomics are not training issues. They eliminate training issues. It makes controls intuitive like a good black rifle should be. Put things where they are expected and that match the functionality of the human frame and you've got a winner. The fact that I need to explain this to you makes me wonder if you "know what you are doing."

The placement of the controls on the XCR are similar or the same as a lot of guns that have already been or are currently being produced.
The placement or function of these controls are neither new nor ground breaking. Someone would know this if they have experience with other platforms.
Liking the fact the charging handle is on the left is one thing, claiming the Sig sucks because it has the charging handle on the opposite side to the XCR is pure nonsense.


As I've said in other posts, show me the gun with the empty support thread. There are none. 30 years of development and every other AR out there comes out of the box just as f**ked up as the next. SIGs are no less. The QA is better for for SIG's but for an extra $800 I'm sure Robonson could give your rifle a very special "once over" ensuring absolutely no defects whatsoever.

Right....

Wow Beltfed, that is the biggest load of horse pucky I've seen flung here for weeks/months. Your posts clearly show that you fall into the Armedsask camp of XCR haters. Fine. Hate the gun. But be honest and reasonable in your posts. No one needs to hear made up s**t from some guy who overstates his point to make up for the fact that he doesn't have any point to make.

I don't hate the XCR. I think it is an overpriced, piece of cr@p from a second rate manufacturer, that produces second rate equipment. Based on history of the manufacturer and rifle, I think this is a fair and reasonable statement. It's just my humble opinion, and I'm not at all hung up on trying to sway your's or anyone else's thoughts on it.
Is it possible to have one that runs right out of the box? I'm sure it is.
Would I make outlandish claims it is better than a Sig? Let's be real.

What I hate is the fact some guy can pump off 5 rounds at a time until they've fired a can of ammo at the local gravel pit and call it all good. So good infact they are willing to get on the 'net and expouse it's virtues to some other poor schmo that might just read his BS for gospel.

If you think you have a winner in the XCR, I think that's great, and applaude you.
If you think you can come on to this forum and claim an untested sporter rifle is better than one of the better serving service rifle designs based on your successful plinking, and not have someone call you on it, think again.
 
ok, let's change it up a bit. What makes thexcr inferior to the sig from a technical standpoint?

I can tell you a few things in regards to the Swiss Arms rifle.

The facotry expected life span for the rifle is as follows:
a) min. 10000 rounds for wearing parts of the bolt assembly
b) min. 15000 rounds barrel life
c) min. 15000 rounds for all other secondary components
d) min. 30000 rounds for major components.

And, that is worst case scenario. The army testing showed minor parts could last as long as up to 30.000 rounds, before they needed replacing.

IMHO, until the xcr can claim similar relaibilty numbers, I wont sway away from the swiss arms rifle series.

Please see: http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/

for full testing of the firearm.
 
While I have a Swiss Arms Classic Green Carbine (Sig 551 look-alike), I can attest to a few things, as I work at The Shooting Edge I get to hear a lot of stuff.

1). I have seen the XCR sold at TSE and it was a pretty sweet looking rifle, with several good ergonomic steps forward in the design process, such as the bolt catch placement under the front of the trigger guard, a great idea. However, I have also had people come back in after a few months and I asked them what they thought about it and a few have said they had a few problems with getting the rifle to run properly, and while they mostly got thier problems resolved, they all noted that for over two grand for the rifle, this shouldn't have been a problem.

2). I have seen the Swiss Arms stuff go out the door and I have asked the owners how they feel about the rifles, carbines and CQBs and they have all said the same thing... "expensive, but worth it". I have to agree with them on this. My carbine is the best running long-arm I have ever used, including the stuff I have used in The Army. Zeroing it is stupid easy, detail strip (excluding trigger group) is stoopid easy and cleaning it is stoopid-ist eezy. I have never had a problem with the magazines, in fact those nifty little built in clips make for scary fast mag changes. You will save a lot of time in mag changes and dumping mags into a pouch. If I had the money I would buy four more, right now.
 
claiming a service life for a part does not equal superiority. some people have had problems with the xcr, mine has never had one malfunction.

Tell me what makes it better. not what you have heard, or what you have read. Not that it is made by Swiss Arms. Not that Robarm has a ####ty reputation.
 
claiming a service life for a part does not equal superiority. some people have had problems with the xcr, mine has never had one malfunction.

Tell me what makes it better. not what you have heard, or what you have read. Not that it is made by Swiss Arms. Not that Robarm has a s**tty reputation.


Not to beat a dead horse, but anybody remember the M-96 and the "problems" they had? It's pretty bad when your rifle starts throwing parts! :) To the company's credit, they did repair/replace defective rifles, but that kind of raised some red flags for me.

Unfortunately, it looks like the XCR is having similar problems retaining parts. I was frankly disappointed, as I had originally looked at purchasing one, but it simply has too many issues for the asking price. Make it sub-$1000, and it's a whole different ball game.
 
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