SKS and corrosive ammo question

yomomma said:
Ok folks. Let's get this straight. Salts can not be neutralized. Nothing there to be neutralized. Neutralized from what to what? Gerrrrrrrrrr.

Salts can be dissolved....big difference. According to science, the best overall liquid to dissolve salt is water.
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You are wrong. It is NOT necessary to add water to Ballistol! I've been using plain Ballistol without any water for years on my SKS's and Mosins. I've never had any problem with corrosion after shooting corrosive surplus ammo (post #24). Obviously, one can add some water to Ballistol but it is not a requirement!

Educate yourself:

CORROSIVE AMMO
Again, due to its alkalinity, Ballistol neutralizes corrosive ammo residue. Ballistol can be used straight or as an emulsification to neutralize potassium salts left by corrosive ammo. Use 10% Ballistol to 90% water for an initial flush. Continue regular cleaning with straight Ballistol.
 
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05RAV said:
DO I NEED TO MIX BALLISTOL WITH WATER?
No. For most applications, straight Ballistol should be used.

I've never ever mixed Ballistol with water and never have any rust on my SKS's and Mosins. See my post #24. Water with Ballistol is NOT needed to neutralize corrosive salts. Fact of the matter is that by mixing Ballistol with water you save some money because less Ballistol is used eventually. However, for me water in guns is an anathema. The only case I use water for dissolving burnt powder residues is black powder. In this case I just remove barrel from my Lyman Trade Rifle and rinse it with lukewarm water. I would never pour water into receiver/action and other internal parts. Just me.
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If you read the FAQ, it specifically recommends that Ballistol be mixed with water for cleaning corrosive ammunition residue.

yomomma said:
Ok folks. Let's get this straight. Salts can not be neutralized. Nothing there to be neutralized. Neutralized from what to what? Gerrrrrrrrrr.

Salts can be dissolved....big difference. According to science, the best overall liquid to dissolve salt is water.
Click to expand...

Correct. Neutralization is the result of of an acid-base reaction. The substance that causes corrosion is potassium chloride. According to this, nothing comes remotely close to water in ability to dissolve KCl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride#Solubility

Hatcher's Notebook is highly recommended for anyone wanting to read more on the subject.

While many shooters have managed to avoid corrosion while using their favourite gun-cleaning solvent, be it Hoppe's, Ballistol, G96, et cetera, it is despite their efforts rather than because of them. Polar substances (such as KCl) require polar solvents to dissolve, water being the most polar solvent of all.
 
05RAV said:
You are wrong. It is NOT necessary to add water to Ballistol! I've been using plain Ballistol without any water for years on my SKS's and Mosins. I've never had any problem with corrosion after shooting corrosive surplus ammo (post #24). Obviously, one can add some water to Ballistol but it is not a requirement!

Educate yourself:

CORROSIVE AMMO
Again, due to its alkalinity, Ballistol neutralizes corrosive ammo residue. Ballistol can be used straight or as an emulsification to neutralize potassium salts left by corrosive ammo. Use 10% Ballistol to 90% water for an initial flush. Continue regular cleaning with straight Ballistol.
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Uhm

Salt is not neutralized by a chemical, but is rather a significant part of neutralizing other chemicals through the neutralization process where acid compounds react with bases and dissolve to form salts and water.
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And those salts wash away best with water.
 
tjhaile said:
If you read the FAQ, it specifically recommends that Ballistol be mixed with water for cleaning corrosive ammunition residue.



Correct. Neutralization is the result of of an acid-base reaction. The substance that causes corrosion is potassium chloride. According to this, nothing comes remotely close to water in ability to dissolve KCl:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_chloride#Solubility

Hatcher's Notebook is highly recommended for anyone wanting to read more on the subject.

While many shooters have managed to avoid corrosion while using their favourite gun-cleaning solvent, be it Hoppe's, Ballistol, G96, et cetera, it is despite their efforts rather than because of them. Polar substances (such as KCl) require polar solvents to dissolve, water being the most polar solvent of all.
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And according to more science you should lick the potassium chloride in your gun ;)

Potassium is a mineral that is found in many foods and is needed for several functions of your body, especially the beating of your heart.

Potassium chloride is used to prevent or to treat low blood levels of potassium (hypokalemia). Potassium levels can be low as a result of a disease or from taking certain medicines, or after a prolonged illness with diarrhea or vomiting.
 
tjhaile said:
If you read the FAQ, it specifically recommends that Ballistol be mixed with water for cleaning corrosive ammunition residue.

Why this fixation on water? Surely, Ballistol can be mixed with water but it it is NOT REQUIRED to mix it with water. One more time: I've never mixed Ballistol with water for cleaning after shooting corrosive with excellent results, i.e. no corrosion at all.

CORROSIVE AMMO (http://ballistol.com/uses/firearm-cleaning-lubricant/)
Again, due to its alkalinity, Ballistol neutralizes corrosive ammo residue. Ballistol can be used straight or as an emulsification to neutralize potassium salts left by corrosive ammo. Use 10% Ballistol to 90% water for an initial flush. Continue regular cleaning with straight Ballistol.

You can relatively easily deduce why Ballistol WITHOUT water can clean as well.
The German armies during WWI and WWII used straight Ballistol for cleaning millions of their guns.
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yomomma said:
And according to more science you should lick the potassium chloride in your gun ;)

Potassium is a mineral that is found in many foods and is needed for several functions of your body, especially the beating of your heart.

Potassium chloride is used to prevent or to treat low blood levels of potassium (hypokalemia). Potassium levels can be low as a result of a disease or from taking certain medicines, or after a prolonged illness with diarrhea or vomiting.
Click to expand...

They even sell it in the grocery store as a substitute for regular salt for those with hypertension.

05RAV said:
Why this fixation on water? Surely, Ballistol can be mixed with water but it it is NOT REQUIRED to mix it with water. One more time: I've never mixed Ballistol with water for cleaning after shooting corrosive with excellent results, i.e. no corrosion at all.

CORROSIVE AMMO (http://ballistol.com/uses/firearm-cleaning-lubricant/)
Again, due to its alkalinity, Ballistol neutralizes corrosive ammo residue. Ballistol can be used straight or as an emulsification to neutralize potassium salts left by corrosive ammo. Use 10% Ballistol to 90% water for an initial flush. Continue regular cleaning with straight Ballistol.

You can relatively easily deduce why Ballistol WITHOUT water can clean as well.
The German armies during WWI and WWII used straight Ballistol for cleaning millions of their guns.
Click to expand...

Why the fixation on water? Because water is basically the only suitable solvent for KCl, as I have already pointed out.

The Ballistol ad copy is flat out wrong; alkalinity has precisely nothing all to do with removing corrosive primer residue, as has also been pointed out. An alkaline product would certainly have value in protection from black powder fouling and fingerprints, both of which are acidic, but corrosive primers are something different altogether. It is unfortunate that a perfectly good product cannot get all their facts straight in their marketing materials.

As far as military use of Ballistol goes, there are two possibilities:

1. Perhaps they did mix it with water for cleaning.
2. If they used straight Ballistol, it certainly wouldn't be the first time the German army was wrong.

Again, anyone who doesn't believe me should consult Hatcher's Notebook, specifically pages 345-350 in the Third Edition to see the exact same material covered by a subject matter expert. This includes the use of emulsions.
 
Why the fixation on water? Because It's free and it works, it takes no time to boil a kettle and pour down the bore. While I'm doing that I've got the rest of the bits in an empty spam can soaking in a water/balistoil mix, by the time I'm done the bits are ready for a quick wipe down. Easy and quick, no rust ever.

Because flushing salts out is less work than scrubbing salts out, hot metal dries itself out after you pour the water too boot.
 
Butcherbill said:
Why the fixation on water? Because It's free and it works, it takes no time to boil a kettle and pour down the bore. While I'm doing that I've got the rest of the bits in an empty spam can soaking in a water/balistoil mix, by the time I'm done the bits are ready for a quick wipe down. Easy and quick, no rust ever.

Because flushing salts out is less work than scrubbing salts out, hot metal dries itself out after you pour the water too boot.
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what he says^^^^^^^^^
 
If you guys want to use water, use it. This is still free country (to the extent). I've never mixed Ballistol with water for cleaning after shooting corrosive with excellent results, i.e. no corrosion at all. . I've been cleaning without water for years. And I'll never add water!. But don't tell poor soul "newbies" on this forum that they MUST add water to Ballistol. No!
I have a strong support from this guy (http://ballistol.com/uses/firearm-cleaning-lubricant/):
"Being able to spray down my rifle at the range (with Ballistol) after shooting over 500 rounds of corrosive ammo, and leaving it for 2 days to find it still OK was AWESOME!!! Not only that, but it was super easy to clean! I am seriously a firm believer in your product now! Goodbye, Breakfree CLP!"
Nate Schultz
Contributing Writer
The Arms Guide
 
05RAV said:
If you guys want to use water, use it. This is still free country (to the extent). I've never mixed Ballistol with water for cleaning after shooting corrosive with excellent results, i.e. no corrosion at all. . I've been cleaning without water for years. And I'll never add water!. But don't tell poor soul "newbies" on this forum that they MUST add water to Ballistol. No!
I have a strong support from this guy (http://ballistol.com/uses/firearm-cleaning-lubricant/):
"Being able to spray down my rifle at the range (with Ballistol) after shooting over 500 rounds of corrosive ammo, and leaving it for 2 days to find it still OK was AWESOME!!! Not only that, but it was super easy to clean! I am seriously a firm believer in your product now! Goodbye, Breakfree CLP!"
Nate Schultz
Contributing Writer
The Arms Guide
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Yep, but why would you not follow their advise and wash with a 10/90% solution of bal/ h2o to save your expensive Balistol? The hot water works perfectly and I use oil or Balistol or eds red etc after to do a normal clean, cheaper and if not quicker it is definitely no slower!
 
Quote Originally Posted by 05RAV View Post
If you guys want to use water, use it. This is still free country (to the extent). I've never mixed Ballistol with water for cleaning after shooting corrosive with excellent results, i.e. no corrosion at all. . I've been cleaning without water for years. And I'll never add water!. But don't tell poor soul "newbies" on this forum that they MUST add water to Ballistol. No!
I have a strong support from this guy (http://ballistol.com/uses/firearm-cleaning-lubricant/):
"Being able to spray down my rifle at the range (with Ballistol) after shooting over 500 rounds of corrosive ammo, and leaving it for 2 days to find it still OK was AWESOME!!! Not only that, but it was super easy to clean! I am seriously a firm believer in your product now! Goodbye, Breakfree CLP!"
Nate Schultz
Contributing Writer
The Arms Guide
Click to expand...


bobdbldr said:
Yep, but why would you not follow their advise and wash with a 10/90% solution of bal/ h2o to save your expensive Balistol? The hot water works perfectly and I use oil or Balistol or eds red etc after to do a normal clean, cheaper and if not quicker it is definitely no slower!
Click to expand...


I explained this in my post #24: "After each shooting session I just spray Ballistol liberally all over the SKS/Mosin including inside the receiver, bolt, gas tube, barrel bore etc. Then I can leave it for cleaning when I have time to do it". Usually I clean my SKS's/Mosins 1-2 hours after returning home. I do exactly as Nate Schultz does (see above). Afterwards, using water becomes quite irrelevant. Regarding Ballistol cost, I buy it in US gallons (3.78 L) from Canada Ammo or Ballistol.ca. Usually I buy 2-3 gallons which last me for 2 years or longer. Comparing the cost of Ballistol with the cost of ammo I shoot, the former is nil/zilch/peanuts. Actually, my annual membership in two shooting clubs (indoor+outdoor) cost me much more than Ballistol. Under the circumstances the cost of Ballistol is really non-issue for me.
Obviously, I agree that if someone wants to save a few pennies on Ballistol, mixing it with water will reduce the cost. My only point is that it is NOT A MUST to mix Ballistol with water.
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat but the proof is in the rusting. For the record, I follow BB's & YoM's procedures roughly.
 
More science...

Although KCI can also be dissolved by some alkali, water is still best.

cXtDw5e.jpg
 
v-king said:
Mix 1 part ballistiol to 10 parts water, spray the rifle down after use and leave till you have time to clean it (days or even weks later). The water part of the solution dissolves the salts and ballistol leaves it oiled once water evaporates.
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That's a good idea. Never thought of doing that. Could probably use other oils too so as long as it can mix with the water rather than float to the top. I'm going to have to bust out some of my oils and test this.
 
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