SKS need help , please

[Boris Badinov]

You are wrong Boris. There is an “N” in its original hardwood stock on the EE right now. I’ve had several go through my hands.

I guarantee its a import/distributor modified or a refurb replacement.

The soviets stopped dating all original stocks in late 1955. From 1956 onward there are not date identifiers on original soviet stocks. If there are, you can bet they are in Canada.

Canadian imports are an unreliable source for determining traits of original condition, because so many of the Canadian guns exhiubit obvious signs of having been modified even refinished.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

And another

 

[Boris Badinov]

And another

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I see nice 1957 refurb.

Can you post photos of all metal serials for this rifle? And a photo of the muzzle and receiver cover?


Also, the number of, and varied depth of the crossbolt stamps at the right side crossbolt is exactly what I refer to regarding the Canadian imports. The single faint triangle stamp on the right crossbolt surrounded by four deeply struck stamps is at least suspect, imho.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

Nope. There is no question this is an original unrefurbished rifle. There is nothing suspect about it.

I really don’t care to educate the willfully ignorant.

 

[Boris Badinov]

Nope. There is no question this is an original unrefurbished rifle. There is nothing suspect about it.

I really don’t care to educate the willfully ignorant.

Show serials, please. And muzzle crown.

Unless you have something to hide.

Beyond further verifiable proof, you have a 1957 letter gun (a very nice one, tbh) in a replacement stock.

 

[PinkyPlinker]

This has been discussed ad nauseum bud. I have no interest in spending time responding to the challenges of some w@nker on the Internet.

Please produce your “decades of research”.

 

[Boris Badinov]

I get it.
But it's been discussed as nauseum elsewhere--with unadulterated/un modified imports-- with much different results. I'm not saying it's impossible, just extremely unlikely. Especially given the Canadian import/distribution element.


If you've got nothing to fear and nothing to hide, post the serials and the muzzle.

Otherwise you've got a very lovely 1957 refurb in a replacement hardwood stock.

 

[Boris Badinov]

...if you decide to post photos of the serials and muzzle please also post a photo of the annealing stripe on the receiver cover

Thanks

 

[bobdbldr]

Show serials, please. And muzzle crown.

Unless you have something to hide.

Beyond further verifiable proof, you have a 1957 letter gun (a very nice one, tbh) in a replacement stock.

Where do you get this information, is there a book or manual you can quote or something you figured out on your own? I am serious when asking for info and sources, we all prefer the truth, however you can't just make things up, some folks think that different fonts or depth of fonts mean the rifle is refurb, so, the same guy in the factory followed the sks around to stamp different parts? I don't think so, different station could/would have different punches and each person Building and stamping may be hitting the punch with a different force! Same with a machine stamp, doesn't mean squat!

 

[Boris Badinov]

Where do you get this information, is there a book or manual you can quote or something you figured out on your own? I am serious when asking for info and sources, we all prefer the truth, however you can't just make things up, some folks think that different fonts or depth of fonts mean the rifle is refurb, so, the same guy in the factory followed the sks around to stamp different parts? I don't think so, different station could/would have different punches and each person Building and stamping may be hitting the punch with a different force! Same with a machine stamp, doesn't mean squat!

Bob, my default reference for SKS info is sks-files.com. The creators of that site are composed of a very small group of collectors who have beenconducting research and compiling and archiving their findings for the better part of two decades.

This is the same group of dedicated, OCD, sks collectors who cracked the dating formula for the Chinese sks several years back.

Their research is ongoing and is generally cross referenced and cross verified by serial data, design feature evolution, photographic evidence, and historical records and literature (what little there is) for the sks.

Deviation in serial fonts is generally identified as a telltale indicator of restamping and/or replacement during the refurbishment process. As well, darkened crowns (blued or painted). Additionally, the absence of an annealing stripe on the receiver cover is an indication that the cover has been painted or re-blued-- another indication of refurbishment.

The primary researcher at sks-files.com is running-man. In his research he discovered significant inconsistencies and obvious alteration and modification with the stocks and serials on the Canadian imports, that they had to be excluded from the research and conclusions.

 

[Horilka]

All the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.

Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard.

 

[Boris Badinov]

All the US researches were based on tiny base of SKSs available in USA. When huge amount of rifles came to Canada from Ukraine in unmolested (except mag pinning) condition, be it original refurb condition or factory original, collectors learnt many new things. Among them are the new empirical data about so called "letter series". Letter series were kind of extra production run, they originally had both laminate and hardwood stocks, and many of them had seen reuse of NOS parts from earlier periods, so it's normal there's no 100% likeness in them. Anyone claiming opposite is just choosing to be ignorant of tons of pictures of factory original rifles discussed here in Canada.

Here, another rifle that can't exist.. Non-refurbed, never issued, original condition letter series with hardwood. I don't deal with SKSs and don't collect them, yet I have seen enough of letter series and '49s and other collectible SKSs that would go for crazy $$$ in US. Here, in Canada it's your regular raccoon in the backyard.

Another nice REFURB^^^

TELLTALE, GIVEAWAY INDICATIONS OF REFURBISHMENT:

1) Tula star on the stock. As 20 years of research has shown DEFINITIVELY that the Tula star was omitted entirely from stocks 1956 onward. It's a pre-1956 stock or a Canadian mod.

2) Only 2 visible stamps on the left crossbolt with a third stamp that is barely visible indicating lite sanding and refinish.

3) Nearly undetectable annealing stripe on the receiver cover indicating rebluing and refurbishment.

EDIT:
4) Just below the serial number on the stock, there are the remnants of a previous serial number indicating modification or replacement during refurb.

 

[Horilka]

Another nice REFURB^^^

TELLTALE, GIVEAWAY INDICATIONS OF REFURBISHMENT:

1) Tula star on the stock. As 20 years of research has shown DEFINITIVELY that the Tula star was omitted entirely from stocks 1956 onward. It's a pre-1956 stock or a Canadian mod.

2) Only 2 visible stamps on the left crossbolt with a third stamp that is barely visible indicating lite sanding and refinish.

3) Nearly undetectable annealing stripe on the receiver cover indicating rebluing and refurbishment.

EDIT:
4) Just below the serial number on the stock, there are the remnants of a previous serial number indicating modification or replacement during refurb.

This has already been discussed and Tula star and
1) It's correct for letter series, see my comment above about NOS that you chose to ignore. That is my point, you're still using outdated information, instead of studying available example and making conclusions.
2) light strike is not sanding
3) Oh, it is right there very visible depending on the light
4) no, it's not, it was some glue or resin, here after some wiping.

P.S. "Canadian mods" for individual rifles that were sold $199 each, in crates, I would like to see who can pull this.

 

[Boris Badinov]

Sorry, dude. That's a refurb. In a pre 1956 hardwood stock.

This is the most current info. From ongoing current research.


It's a beautiful rifle though. But its still a refurb.

 

[Boris Badinov]

Join up over at sks-files.com and post your rifle there. Who knows, maybe I missed something though I doubt it.

I give credit to actual research, and that site is dedicated to research in its purest form.

Post it up over there and see what the researchers have to say. But as far as I can see, that's a telltale 1957 refurb.

 

[Boris Badinov]

I’m the seller of the gun. This is an interesting one as the stock is stamped WP, Polish Army. It is a letter gun (I). I’ve found discussions involving a half dozen or so marked this way but nobody seems to know the story behind them.

As a side note, the letter guns can be either hardwood or laminate from factory. This particular gun is marked as a Russian refurb and the stock was likely replaced. I haven’t seen another one quite like it.

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Actually, this exact rifle showed up in a thread on sks-files.com several years ago. Immediately identified as a refurb because of the stock serial configuration...with the


https://sks-files.com/index.php?topic=2293.msg26481#msg26481

non-members might not be able to see the photos. But it's the same exact rifle with the И suffix stamped on the stock.

 

[Horilka]

Join up over at sks-files.com and post your rifle there. Who knows, maybe I missed something though I doubt it.

I give credit to actual research, and that site is dedicated to research in its purest form.

Post it up over there and see what the researchers have to say. But as far as I can see, that's a telltale 1957 refurb.

What you're missing is that letter series guns were built also from NOS parts, including stocks. It wasn't full-scale production as before. Stock are not the only inconsistencies on non-refurbed letter-series. Let's call Luftwaffe depot builds K98s "refurbs" too because they were using whatever they could source. I have no interest reviving this discussion. It had already been had with very knowledgeable SKS collectors here and in US. Except for pinning this rifle is in exact condition as she left the factory, she is legit, and I'm out as I feel like I'm having an argument with flat-earther, anything that doesn't fit in your theory you just discard while I try to explain item by item why it is correct. Have a nice day.

 

[Loose-Cannon]

I hate to say this (not really), but some of you guys may want to listen more and bork bork less. Also, the presumption that the US didn't import Russians in the same numbers etc as CA is well.... woefully ignorant.

 

[Boris Badinov]

That's a whole lot of made up facts.

There is absolutely no way to say if 1956-58 was full production or not.

I'll stick with actual research. You can go with what makes your rifle feel good to you-- in spite of the traits which indicate ot h.g erwise.

Again, I invite any and all to join up at sks-files.com. if you're right, your claims will be borne out by the research.

Parting shot: nice 1957 refurb. In.all honesty, one of the prettiest refurbs I've seen ever seen.

 

[Loose-Cannon]

FWIW.... we have seen crossbolt stamps on refurbished rifles. This to me should in no way shape or form should be 'the' determining factor in establishing originality.

Just sayin