dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Good reminder, I was once there but now I buy or collect based off best value and quality. Especially Mauser Oberndorf specimens.
So much JUNK
- Thread starter R005t3r
- Start date
Good reminder, I was once there but now I buy or collect based off best value and quality. Especially Mauser Oberndorf specimens.
Except there are many who don't think that way. They just follow the herd and buy what's popular. So it's not matter of buying a clapped out rc 98 becuae they want to collect German or ww2 guns, it's buying it because everyone is buying one, so it must be the one to buy.
playing devil's advocate - anyone who bought RC 98's when they were $500 made a very wise investment... even those that bought at $800-1000 seems to be ahead now.
I've had some of these that were nice and some that were ratty. I eventually sold them all off - they are not my cup of tea. I'd rather have a nice matching M48 than a mixmaster RC to get my 8mm fix - just saying.
Now you're splitting hairs again.
Your arguments have become personal prefference related.
The reality of the matter is that MOST, not al people can't afford to collect firearms of any sort. On top of that the vast majority of people who do have milsurps only have them because they like to shoot and there was, up until recently, a lot of cheap surplus ammunition available for those firearms.
Ex Soviet Block nations dumped their inventories of SKS/Mosin variants and other similar firearms at below cost of manufacture prices.
A good example of how awry that reasoning can go is with the recent import of Carcano Carbines. Ammunition is very hard to find and components for reloading the spent cases is even more difficult to find.
This is exactly what happened when the plethora of Swede Mausers were dumped in North America back in the mid seventies. Ammunition, even though it was being manufactured in Canada by Dominion was next to impossible to find and the price of the all matching number rifles languished in the $20 range for most models, other than the M94 Carbines. Many of them were cut down and rebarreled for sporter/hunting rifles in chamberings that were easily come by.
Only a very small percentage of firearms enthusiasts were even interested in those rifles at the time, other than as curiosities.
When the surplus 303 Brit dried up, prices on the rifles actually came down for a few years, but commercial production kept the sporters shooting and the Canadian government kept the costs down by procuring ammunition for the Ranger rifles.
Collecting fine milsurps, is done by a very small fraction of Canadian firearms enthusiasts.
This is mostly because the average firearms enthusiast can't justify the cost of purchasing or shooting them. It's even difficult to display them anymore, so why be bothered with this heavy old firearm gathering dust in the closet or stored in the back of the safe??
I don't mind the mismatched, beaten, ridden hard milsurps out there. It keeps interest up and in the case of my collectibles, the valuations higher.
The milsurps we see today are what's left. They may not be pretty and numbers may not match, but that's how they were designed and built to be. They were designed to be able to mix parts and keep on functioning under severe conditions, for long periods of time in a safe/effective manner and they do this job very well, just as they were intended to do.
No I'm not bearhunter. I'm using very common examples.
If I were to throw in personal preferences, I'd be ripping into sks's, carcano's and the like.
Say what you will, but do I need to remind you that you whole heartedly agreed with me on this very same topic about a year ago?!
If I were to throw in personal preferences, I'd be ripping into sks's, carcano's and the like.
Say what you will, but do I need to remind you that you whole heartedly agreed with me on this very same topic about a year ago?!
Actually you are not playing devil's advocate. You are backing up what i am saying. I believe the main reason RC's are so expensive, everyone jumped on one to buy, because sigh again: they are following the herd. It even seems that RC's are more expensive then many yugo or E german reworks. Why? I wish I knew. They all came from the same pot: nazi Germany. The yugo and german reworks are generally speaking, in much infinitely better condition.
I have owned many RC's (and sks's etc). Sold and made a tidy profit. Before anyone accuses me of being an opportunist, i bought and sold and watched the market. I used those guns to fund other gun purchases on stuff i really wanted. Same withSVT-40s, MN's Garands, etc.
One needs to stay ahead of the herd, not within it, if you are going to build a collection that doesnt bleed you dry financially. I use some guns to fund the purchase of other guns.
I have my ideas on what the next "big thing" will be and am watching and acquiring. Havent been proven wrong...yet.
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I still agree with you on most of your position, however you have gone even more hardcore, which isn't always a bad thing.
I try to stay away from what you call "JUNK" but I don't feel it's useless JUNK, nor am I willing to knock someone that can't afford nor wants to own a collectible.
I know you are passionate and have a lot of respect for that passion as in many ways I share the passion.
But, just like every other aspect of collecting, there are different levels.
Again I emphasize, its not about affordability its about people chasing the flavour of the day. HERD mentality. I will use the clapped out Rc mauser as an example again. People are willing to spend more on that, when there are better mausers out there for less. If its affordability, they would be buying Isreali mausers or the converted Chilean mausers as they are cheaper, better and shoot cheaper (7.62 nato) ammo.
And who is the herd that those people are following? The people with specific interests. People need to be interested in something before the followers have anything to follow.
Now, a lot of people buy based on price and availability, myself included. They're not driving prices up much though, because they lose interest quickly as prices start to climb.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
It's kinda why I buy just shooters.
My M44 has a milled off bayonet lug, so dropped it into a m38 stock. My Isreali K98 is a miss match, my M1C is a arsenal miss match. The only one that is original is my no4 mk2, irish person needed a irish contract.
I buy the gun, not the story.
My M44 has a milled off bayonet lug, so dropped it into a m38 stock. My Isreali K98 is a miss match, my M1C is a arsenal miss match. The only one that is original is my no4 mk2, irish person needed a irish contract.
I buy the gun, not the story.
I must be in the minority...
Some of my collection has a specific focus and some of it is eclectic.
I've never looked at collecting milsurps as an investment nor have I seen it as a money making venture.
All of my collection gets used even the safe queens now and again.
Some of my collection has a specific focus and some of it is eclectic.
I've never looked at collecting milsurps as an investment nor have I seen it as a money making venture.
All of my collection gets used even the safe queens now and again.
MosinMan13
CGN Regular
- Location
- Thornbury Ontario
Sorry that’s the only part I still just can’t wrap my head around, I just can’t see people buying milsurps because of “heard mentality” people buy semi auto sporters and lever guns that way absolutely, (see Type 81 or any Marlin levers especially in 45-70 for example) but milsurps are a niche group of people who like history with far too diverse of interests to categorize to one box. I would agree that some early or first time collectors probably dive on stupid purchases out of a bad combination of emotional engagement and lack of education, but I wouldn’t believe that there’s a major group of people blindly buying garbage.
And the thing is I DO agree in the areas that I mentioned, Marlin Lever guns a perfect example, going back a couple years pre sandy hook, you could hardly give away a Rem-lin trash rod, I had a land separate out of one, terrible quality pieces, but these days people act like they’re a collectable.
I don’t see that same motion in Milsurp though, I see less rare rifles, which certainly shows more for lesser grade rifles, but I don’t see this wave of people blindly paying too much for crap. People are paying for what they can get, what they can afford, and what they can use.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
People do the same for milsurps. M39s were 300$ every day until they brought in a shipment then suddenly the price climbed to 800$. People jumped on buying them because they are the ‘best’ Mosin. K31s are very desired because they are ‘the best’ but the less common K11 or G11 is turned down/left for sale for a while.
People who own milsurps aren’t all collectors, most aren’t. Out of my friends who own firearms, every one of them owns a milsurp or two but none of them are collectors.
dgradinaru
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- British Columbia
Same thing happened with the Russian Capture 98's. They were running for 700-800$ 5 years ago then a new shipment came in and the dealers listed them for 1400-1600$, then its history from there.
IMO it's about what interests people in general the most. The 60th and 70th anniversarys of various WW2 battles, movies and TV(Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers) got a lot of people interested in firearms of WW2 combatants and just when the supply was starting to dry up. So prices exploded. Just like vintage Winchesters which brought higher prices 20 years ago because the guys who are nuts about them are gradually dying off causing demand to drop. My 2 cents.
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Video games are also a huge contributor to the boom in interest regarding milsurps.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
Another great example was the P38s. You could buy a all matching P38 with magazines and holster for 400$ish, then the RCs came in at 800$ and suddenly the originals ones skyrocketed (not saying it wasn't a good deal before hand).
Interesting conversation. I collect Milsurp rifles. Most of what I have I purchased 30 years ago. Purged most of the mismatched rifles 15 years ago. Kept the matched/better condition pieces. I don’t have anything that I’d consider is super rare or special. I just bought/buy what interests me. They are definitely not an investment in my mind though many have increased in value considerably. I’ve just recently started shopping around/buying again. There are still some reasonably priced guns out there. The days of the $69.95 Lee Enfield are long gone though. Local gun shows are a good source. Still some deals on here as well. It’s a hobby, not a get rich quick scheme for me. My intention now is to collect a few from most of the major participants in WW2 and enjoy them. Feel what it’s like to get my hands on and shoot the weapons from all sides of that historic conflict.
