So the general consensus is the Vanguard S2 is the best of the budget rifles ?

Here is an issue I have with prices..... Why do dealers mark up the prices based on the dollar when they already had it in stock before the dollar went up?...... I have recently witnessed prices jacked up on a rifle that was already purchased and available and the excuse was always the dollar conversion.....

It's as bad as when gas prices go up.... same damn gas in their tanks, but suddenly worth more today than it was yesterday, although it was purchased at yesterday's price..

unlike may others, i expect a dealer to take their cut...... but using the dollar excuse is lame when you bought it when the dollar was almost equal....
 
HA ! Not going to argue this one !

Axis doesn't work for me. I'd rather the Hog Hunter for a budget Savage.

Have had my .223 Hog Hunter for a couple years now and just love it! Whether I shoot it, my kids shoot it, or my ex-Army buddy shoots it, it just shoots great. Paid 479.00, love the 3 lb accutrigger, beefy barrel, over size bolt handle, dull finish, threaded barrel, heavy METAL backup sights, and free floating barrel.

Would have liked the detachable mag option, but it is no biggie as I usually don't hammer out multiple shots with my bolt actions anyways, the blind mag is idiot proof.

I did spray in some foam in the stock and epoxied metal rails in the front part of the stock to make it more rigid for the bipod.

Accuracy is consistent really like it's heft, it is ugly but I wanted a TOUGH field gun. :)


 
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Here is an issue I have with prices..... Why do dealers mark up the prices based on the dollar when they already had it in stock before the dollar went up?...... I have recently witnessed prices jacked up on a rifle that was already purchased and available and the excuse was always the dollar conversion.....

It's as bad as when gas prices go up.... same damn gas in their tanks, but suddenly worth more today than it was yesterday, although it was purchased at yesterday's price..

unlike may others, i expect a dealer to take their cut...... but using the dollar excuse is lame when you bought it when the dollar was almost equal....

I think some of it has to do with MAP and MSRP. Dealers can get their wrists slapped badly if they violate their distribution agreements. Just a guess though.
 
And this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Have no interest in swapping out part after part. Should just get a better rifle in the first place.

Just looking for the best of the budget's and call it a day.

Is it my understanding the Howa 1500 and Vanguard are the same rifle ?

Vanguard --> Mark V --> Sako 85. As the budget grows. You wont be disappointed. Vanguard is a superb rifle for the money ive been eyeballing the stainless at cabelas...not that anyone needs that many Vanguards ;)
 
Have had my .223 Hog Hunter for a couple years now and just love it! Whether I shoot it, my kids shoot it, or my ex-Army buddy shoots it, it just shoots great. Paid 479.00, love the 3 lb accutrigger, beefy barrel, over size bolt handle, dull finish, threaded barrel, heavy METAL backup sights, and free floating barrel.

Would have liked the detachable mag option, but it is no biggie as I usually don't hammer out multiple shots with my bolt actions anyways, the blind mag is idiot proof.

I did spray in some foam in the stock and epoxied metal rails in the front part of the stock to make it more rigid for the bipod.

Accuracy is consistent really like it's heft, it is ugly but I wanted a TOUGH field gun. :)



Something about the simple utility of the Hog Hunter I've liked since it came out.

Thanks for the pics. Like the mods you did.
 
Have had my .223 Hog Hunter for a couple years now and just love it! Whether I shoot it, my kids shoot it, or my ex-Army buddy shoots it, it just shoots great. Paid 479.00, love the 3 lb accutrigger, beefy barrel, over size bolt handle, dull finish, threaded barrel, heavy METAL backup sights, and free floating barrel.

Would have liked the detachable mag option, but it is no biggie as I usually don't hammer out multiple shots with my bolt actions anyways, the blind mag is idiot proof.

I did spray in some foam in the stock and epoxied metal rails in the front part of the stock to make it more rigid for the bipod.

Accuracy is consistent really like it's heft, it is ugly but I wanted a TOUGH field gun. :)



The only thing I like about that gun is, it's not mine.
 
I did alot of research on the S2 when they first hit the market in 2011.NRA named them rifle of the year in 2012 , and offerd a limited addition too there members in 270win AAA walnut stock.Outdoor life named it rifle of the year(they have been writeing hunting fishing and firearms reviews for about 100 years)and I quote ,the highest quality rifle on the market at any price range.)Barrels and actions are made in Japan by Howa, who have been making high quality barrels and rifles for decades.they have the cold hammer forging process down to fine art.Stocks and factory horned triggers are made in the USA ,rifles are assembled and checked for quality control in California.I bought a S2 in synthetic stainless steel 30-06. I mounted a Vortex Viper HS 2.5x10-44 on it and can tell you it's a confidence inspiring shooting system!!!. Do the research and read the reviews there are many . I don't think you would ever regret buying one.I sure didn't.
 
Here is an issue I have with prices..... Why do dealers mark up the prices based on the dollar when they already had it in stock before the dollar went up?...... I have recently witnessed prices jacked up on a rifle that was already purchased and available and the excuse was always the dollar conversion.....

It's as bad as when gas prices go up.... same damn gas in their tanks, but suddenly worth more today than it was yesterday, although it was purchased at yesterday's price..

unlike may others, i expect a dealer to take their cut...... but using the dollar excuse is lame when you bought it when the dollar was almost equal....

Pricing a rifle, shotgun, accessory is sometimes a little more complicated that simply "following the dollar".

And yes, there are some mfg's that "set the price", but that is a very small group. The sellers has almost exclusive control of the price they put on the sticker.

Some set the price and sell at that whether the dollar goes up, down or sideways.

If I paid say 500 bucks from the wholesaler for Rifle A, and say I bought 10 of them (my projected sales for that market), once received I would mark them up (typically 20-25%) and put them on the shelf (maybe for $600 bucks in this example). If I only sell 6 of them, but the dollar goes from par to 80 cents in the process, then depending on 1) what the competition is selling them for 2) if I plan to reorder the rifle at the new price (might now be $580 for "replacement stock" or 3) how badly I want to get rid of them (might be a model change coming) I will (personally decide, in my case) what I want to do with the price.

Myself, I try and leave the price at whatever it went on the shelf as originally - that is just less work for me.

But if say it's a popular seller that I'm going to "restock" then I might blend the price.

Again, in the above example if I have 4 of the original 10 left that I paid 500 bucks for ($2000 worth of stock) and I re-order 4 at the new price (call it 4 x $580 as an example - $2320) now my 8 rifles cost me an average of $4320/8 or $540 each.

At that point I could 1) price them at $725 reflecting the entire wholesale price when the new ones were received or 2) blend the price to something between $650-$675.

So I would make more than my margin on the (older) 4 and make less than my margin on the (newer) 4. And yes, the customer will pay more than they would have the week before, but less than if I had not had stock and simply brought that model in at that point.

But as the retailer you have to be mindful. It's not the 1970's where you didn't know what Bob's Guns was selling it for even a few towns away. Today everyone comes in with their smart phones, flashes up Google and instantly knows what rifle A is selling for at any of 50 sellers, half of which will ship right to your door with a few clicks. If I'm selling for 100 bucks more than Bob's Guns you will buy from him and I will be stuck with stock.

Now, if I'm the only one who has the product, the wholesalers are on "standing order" or not taking orders at all, and the "replacement cost" to me is (whatever) dollars, that WILL be reflected in the selling price.

My point is, it's just a little more complicated that simply following the US dollar. Most sellers are not in a position to import themselves so they use wholesalers. Even if they do import themselves they are at the mercy of the US dollar on a daily basis. And even though the wholesaler might have got their stock at PAR their prices tend to reflect either a blend or full replacement cost as well "for them".

And if you think a 20-25% mark-up sounds high, you can consider that the "cost to do business" usually runs at about 12.5%. That's the "break even" point. Most retailers will tell you that you have to account of 4% for "rent", 4% for labour, 2% for utilities and 2.5% "processing costs" (if you use a credit card, and many do, they take a big chunk out a sale in relative terms).

So there is very "little room" on a firearm/optic/ammo etc to move one way or the other when your cost is determined by someone else. You don't have the luxury of a clothing or furniture retailer where there is minimally a 100% mark-up and on some furniture it runs as high as 800%.

And ultimately, as a consumer, it's YOUR CHOICE as to whether you pay the price or not. Everyone was aware that the buck was at par for better than a year. If you "waffled" on something you wanted, it's NOT the retailers fault that the buck is only worth 72 cents now and that rifle you wanted is 300 bucks more than it was last year.
 
The only thing I like about that gun is, it's not mine.

I have a spare factory stock I paid 40.00 for, and all other parts either unscrew or are QD releases.

So I can easily switch to a bench set up or a truck gun.

Personally I would choose a older Remmie 700 truth be told, all the others are really close in how gun makers are cutting corners.........................

Don't get me wrong, really liked the S2, just thought the barrel was a tad light for my tastes.

The Mossberg had a floppy bolt, the 700 safety recalls concerned me, but the recent Vanguard sale I would have ended up with one even with the skinny unthreaded barrel, and no metal backup sights.
 
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I have a spare factory stock I paid 40.00 for, and all other parts either unscrew or are QD releases.

So I can easily switch to a bench set up or a truck gun.

Personally I would choose a older Remmie 700 truth be told, all the others are really close in how gun makers are cutting corners.........................

Don't get me wrong, really liked the S2, just thought the barrel was a tad light for my tastes.

The Mossberg had a floppy bolt, the 700 safety recalls concerned me, but the recent Vanguard sale I would have ended up with one even with the skinny unthreaded barrel, and no metal backup sights.

randyhub,

Does the zero change much on your HH when you swap stocks ?

Wish a lot more rifles came with iron sights. Nice to see them coming back a bit.
 
I agree, irons to me are a must for a truck/bush gun, that is why I use quick detachable scope rings as well. Tried see thru rings, but they were too high, love the adjustable cheek rest as it gives me some options.

At my age scopes are a must past 100 yards when in the open.

I have not swapped the stocks but do expect a POI change, mind you the beefy metal tang on the barrel, and metal inserts in the stock really lock everything in tight.

The 40.00 stock was just in case I sell my Hog Hunter(which I highly doubt)and the person wants both options or I want to go back to the unmodified stock.

Still that Vanguard sale at Wholesales did make me think about it, as one guy snapped up 3 of them while I was there. :)
 
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Yup, all my hunting rifles have iron sights and always will. Sometimes I remove the scope on one just for fun. Compact bolt action with irons and no scope are very handy !

See thru rings are garbage imo.

Best detach rings are Larue Tactical imo. Nothing touches em but not cheap.

Ah ... didn't know the HH stock had metal pillars. That helps a bit.

As for the WSS sale .... I'm that guy who ALWAYS misses the sales on the good items !
 
My 300 Weatherby Vanguard S2 shoots exceptionally well. I have an old S&W 1500 Deluxe in 300Win Mag (Howa barrelled action) that shoots exceptional also. Make sure you purchase the S2 version as opposed to the old Vanguards as the trigger has been upgraded.
 
On a pure hunting rifle, I find iron sights snag on every damn thing, and the little levers on quick detach rings will poke my hands, grab my clothes, and drive me to drink.

On a wilderness protection, bush or truck gun, you could argue you *only* want iron sights.

I use talley lightweights when I can, Leupold when I need a very extended front base (stupid turn-in system - I hate it), and Warne for quick detach. Warne permanent attach rings suck. Talley quick detach steel rings are ridiculously bad.
 
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