Stopping Power (debate)

[Camp Cook]

Higher velocity makes 'em considerably easier to hit.

I disagree to me it means I will shoot further with a high velocity round and closer for a slow velocity round so @ the distances I use either of them @ they are just as easy to hit with either.

I just pass up more shots when I am hunting with slower velocity rounds.

I also like all of the different ballistic programs be it energy, TKO or whatever they all have their place and all can help in the evaluation of a given round/bullet just don't allow yourself to be sucked into thinking that they are the be all end all...

 

[303carbine]

Short magnums do not compensate for marksmanship any more than long barrels equal better accuracy.

 

[mikeelliot]

It still all boils down to shot placement....

NAA.

Should have ended it here....

A 17 REM and a 700 Nitro will both kill a deer if you shoot it in the head.

 

[canadaman30]

My only thoughts are these high velocity 270 to 300 cal that carry soo much speed and enegy seem to pass through game and carry alot of its energy with it when hitting broad side bread basket shots. Seems like the big bore calibres rocks the animal when hit ????

 

[stubblejumper]

My only thoughts are these high velocity 270 to 300 cal that carry soo much speed and enegy seem to pass through game and carry alot of its energy with it when hitting broad side bread basket shots.

I could care less if the bullets exit.My quickest kills on both deer and elk/moose have been with high velocity 7mm/300 magnums.

Now I suppose that someone is going to claim that the bullets are traveling too fast to expand.

 

[Boomer]

Regarding the 100gr tsx .257: At the same time, imagine a 600gr TSX out of the 505. Would that make it 6x better than the latter 100 grain bullet?

It the depends on the target and the range to it. A deer at 50 yards is dead either way. A deer at 500 yards and you will find that the 505 is not the best tool for the job, but a .257 on an African elephant will get you killed.

 

[stubblejumper]

A deer at 500 yards and you will find that the 505 is not the best tool for the job, but a .257 on an African elephant will get you killed.

Yet a .275 Rigby(7x57) works just fine on elephant.

 

[Gatehouse]

I

Now I suppose that someone is going to claim that the bullets are traveling too fast to expand.

I hate it when that happens

 

[stubblejumper]

I hate it when that happens

But sooner or later,it always seems to happen.Some people still believe that nonsense.

 

[Pathfinder]

P.O Ackley does make some interesting notes on sub caliber cartridges for hunting. He has made up a few 17 cal centerires (I forget which ones, Maybe a 22-250 necked down). He said that they killed exceptionnally well, I do believe that he was hunting small/medium game like sheep with it. Most would not take a another step.

Gazorp !! (you had to read the book)

 

[sealhunter]

fastest kill on an elk was with a 450 Marlin.
fastest kill on a deer, ... bang flops with many calibres, but 9/10 was a 30/30
Slowest kill? 30/06 on a Bison
Most visually devastating? 45/70 on an elk

Animals ever lost? None

Animals ever tracked? Many (only two have been my own)

Ever used super magnums? yup

Impressed? For my purposes, they were little more than a horse of a
different colour

What I hunt? Elk, Deer, Moose, Caribou, Bear

What rifle do I use? 30/30, 450, 45/70 (99%)

Style of hunting? I have my own definition of what I call hunting. 600 yrd
shots are not my style

 

[mdragon9]

fastest kill on an elk was with a 450 Marlin.
fastest kill on a deer, ... bang flops with many calibres, but 9/10 was a 30/30
Slowest kill? 30/06 on a Bison
Most visually devastating? 45/70 on an elk

Animals ever lost? None

Animals ever tracked? Many (only two have been my own)

Ever used super magnums? yup

Impressed? For my purposes, they were little more than a horse of a
different colour

What I hunt? Elk, Deer, Moose, Caribou, Bear

What rifle do I use? 30/30, 450, 45/70 (99%)

Style of hunting? I have my own definition of what I call hunting. 600 yrd
shots are not my style

Curious what cartridge you prefer for the 45/70 with deer or black bear? Do you hand load or use factory?

 

[kidvett]

I like'em big bores !! My main rig being a 458 WM. Good for all the hunting I do if the range is kept reasonable....Also fond of 375, 404 & 416s...

I switched to ``biggies`` a while back when I was using standard calibers like 30-30 Winch on deer. I went up to 375 Winch (yup still a 94 but Big Bore) handloading a 220 Barnes at 2200 fps (I know it's over max !) Big difference on deer !! I stopped tracking them right there, as it's a lot of fun to track a wounded deer at night....

I wont say a big bore kills as fast as some hi-vel magnums but it sure drops them right there...

Mk

 

[powdergun]

From my experience ( primarily on deer and black bears ) The fastest bang flops have come from 45 cal 300 gr XTP's at under 150 yrds out of a savage muzzle loader. As for rifles I had very good success with a 7mm mag loaded with 175 gr mag tips. That load hit 6 bears at ranges up to 200 yrds and in each case the bears dropped instantly.

Worst performers I have witnessed was with .308' s firing 150 gr bullets. All animals recovered but some went a fair bit.

IMO a big caliber moving at 2000-2500 fps is pretty hard to beat at reasonable hunting ranges. I'll repeat what was said above in that 600 yrd shots are not my thing and that shot placement comes first and foremost but my vote is for big hunks of lead.

 

[Seabass]

With all the high velocity cartridges on the market where do they stand in comparison to heavy calibre loads : 270 wsm, 7mm rum or the 45-70, 450 marlin. seems like alot of guys out there are still liking the slower bigger calibres.

Depends on how you hunt, what you hunt,where you hunt, and what your willing to take for shots.

If your a guy who practices and takes long shots over 200 yrds on a regular bases then a "flat shooter" is probally your best choice.

For deer sized game who cares. Either one

For Elk, Moose, Grizzly and Bison. My vote is a larger caliber with a heavy bullet. I want a bullet that will put down one of these critters reagdless of angle. (not everyones choice or ideal, but my personal choice).


I've shot game with 300win mags and 45/70's. To be honest I prefer the 45/70 with stout loads for big, big game under 200yrds.

Cheers

Seabass

 

[stubblejumper]

I've shot game with 300win mags and 45/70's. To be honest I prefer the 45/70 with stout loads for big, big game under 200yrds.

Have you used the Barnes tsx in the 300winmag?

 

[Eagleye]

You can postulate with all sorts of mathematical formulae, you can juggle numbers till your brain hurts and you can talk all you like about knockdown values, or how big the hole in the end of the barrel needs to be, but none of it makes enough difference to spit on. The animals we shoot cannot read any of the figures, nor do they refuse to lay down and die if insufficient "paper" energy hits them. Take any decent chambering, use a bullet designed for the purpose at hand, and hit that animal in the correct place, and you are done! If you prefer cannons that lay the grass down in a 30 foot circle in front of you when you touch one off, go for it. Just don't fix a steely gaze on me and try to tell me that my 6.5, 270, 30-06, 308 Norma Mag, 8x57 or whatever cannot kill that big cervid/bovid/ursa. Cause I'll just prove you wrong in short order. Regards, Eagleye

 

[Boomer]

Yet a .275 Rigby(7x57) works just fine on elephant.

I think research will bare out that small bore loads (.275s, 303s, .318s, etc) when used with one specific shot would kill an elephant under very specific circumstances. In todays hunting climate where the elephant is likely to be confronted and shot from the front or side rather than carefully stalked and shot when undisturbed from behind and above, the .275 would not be a top choice. Don't even get me going on the subject of elephant poachers with AKs and chain saws.

 

[stubblejumper]

I think research will bare out that small bore loads (.275s, 303s, .318s, etc) when used with one specific shot would kill an elephant under very specific circumstances. In todays hunting climate where the elephant is likely to be confronted and shot from the front or side rather than carefully stalked and shot when undisturbed from behind and above, the .275 would not be a top choice.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bell_elephants.htm

Bell recorded all of his kills and shots fired. It was a business to him, not pleasure, and he needed to record expenditures.

* He shot exactly 1,011 elephants with a series of six Rigby-made 7x57mm (.275 Rigby) rifles with 173 grain military ammo.
* He shot 300 elephants with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm carbine.
* He shot 200 odd with the .303 and the 215 grain army bullet.
* He went to a .318 Westley Richards for a while, which is a cartridge firing a 250 grain bullet at about 2400 fps, but found the ammunition unreliable and returned to the 7mm.

A great many people have tried to explain away Bell’s elephant hunting success by asserting that he didn’t need to hunt in thick cover and could shoot elephants from long range, the implication being that somehow the behavior of African elephants must have been different back then. This is untrue, as any reader of his books will find. Mr. Bell hunted hard, walked thousands of miles, ran down elephants and was a very cool marksman at close range.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_50/ai_n6081535/

Walking and crawling through the waist-high, dew-laden grass, I managed to maneuver to within 40 yards of the bull elephant. Raising my rifle slowly to eye level, I centered the front sight on the big beast's massive forehead and sent one .275 Rigby bullet on its way for the legendary shot I'd made famous--the frontal brain shot.

 

[Boomer]

Read Bell's book, it tells a different story, and he always had a big bore available for emergencies.