The 308 Winchester operates under higher pressure than any of the other cartridges mentioned, so why wouldn't the 88 be in the running? I know, the Browning lever also is in 308, so I would say a toss up between the W88 and the B BLR.
?? Strongest Lever Action ??
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The question of strongest does raise some factors. First, there is the problem of axial thrust on the bolt. Second, and more importantly, there is the hoop stress on the chamber. If a gun is going to let go, it will almost always, if not always, let go in the chamber area, not the action. To clarify, the weakest link in most rifles is the chamber, not the action. Actions will loosen up over a long time, but it is the chamber that will catastrophically fail. Also, strongest action doesn't always translate into most powerful cartridge. The modern '86 will put a 400 grain bullet out the barrel at 2,000 fps, generating truly awesome stopping power compared to a 308, if that is what a fellow wants. Another factor to consider is that forward locking lugs avoid any flexure problems that rear locking lugs may permit, but one must also worry about the shear strength of those forward locking lugs, many of which will be weaker in shear strength than, say, the modern stresses the modern rear locking lugs of the 86 can take. The modern '86 lugs and channels will never shear and I'm not sure the the modern 86 action will ever loosen up either. So at the end of the day, it is the chamber that is the weakest link in modern firearms.
I love the Winchester model 88. Trigger group travels with the lever, no more pinched fingers! Box mag fed! No exposed hammer to catch on brush and possibly lead to accidental discharges. Paired with a set of Williams peep sights, makes for one great rifle in my opinion!
ouch! that's a blow below the belt bucket, penalty for you, I say! Mod's, got pink paint handy? Mad Dog? any body? WTF!
The ability to handle high pressures is more indicative of the barrel strength around the chamber, not the action strength. Also, one must be careful about assuming that, since the modern Model1886 action is chambered in cartridges the factory versions of which don't have as high a pressure as, say, the 300 Win Mag that, therefore, the BLR has a stronger barrel and action. In my conversation with the fellow in the design dept at Browning some years ago, he told me that the Browning 1886 SRC was designed to handle pressures and axial thrust way beyond what the 45-70 factory loads could put out. The idea behind the design was that it should be able to handle modern handloaded very hot loads, and by 'very hot' he told me how hot (which I will not repeat), and I've seen some pretty hot loads published loads for the 45-70 but nothing as hot as what he said it is designed to handle. I expect that the modern Winchester version of the '86's that are being produced now would be using the same design and alloys. The 1886 action was always over designed by a wide margin. Based on what the fellow in the design department said, the modern 1886 action (at least the Browning version) is significantly stronger than the BLR. As for the chamber strength, I'm not sure on that one.
All that being said, I am no fan of hot loads. Modern rifles will handle whatever cartridge they are chambered for, so just get the rifle you like chambered for the cartridge you like. If you insist on loading your cartridge to the max, it will be the chamber that blows, not the action, although I have seen forward locking lugs sheared off completely in a chamber overload, but the chamber still was where the most damage was.
The Marlin 1895 can handle some pretty stiff 45-70 custom loads, and has been used to take the big five over in Africa with those Hammerhead loads, but the 1886 action is significantly stronger. I know one PH that uses a modern 45-70 1886 with some pretty awesome loads that I have no desire at all to try out. The first time I took apart my Marlin 1895 action, I was amazed at how weak the design seemed to be in comparison to the 1886, nevertheless, I've seen at least one blown up Marlin 1895 and the action held; it was the chamber that blew. So as I said before, whatever actions you all like, it is not the real issue if you are using steamy loads; it's the chamber strength.
I do know (and have seen the detailed photos) of one original 1886 that was blown up which really underscores the strength of the action vs. the chamber strength. This blow up was not due to a single double charge, it was due to using hot loads over a long period of time. On the second last shot, the velocity was way down and he thought something was wrong with his load for that particular cartridge. The real reason is that the chamber had fatigued and cracked and slightly enlarged enough to drop the pressure and lower the velocity. The final round was inserted, the trigger was pulled, and the chamber area became shrapnel. Now here's the point: Even with a few thousand heavy loads in an original (weaker metal) 1886 in high condition, the action did not loosen up. It was the chamber that fatigued and blew.
Johnn Peterson
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With your take on the strength of the '86 action and I believe the 71 was an upgrade of the '86, how would you say the strength of the 71 stacks up? And the next improvement to the '71 being some of the most recently produced copies, with upgrade/improvements in metallurgy, where would you say they fit in strength wise?
The original Model 71 action was essentially an 1886 action with a few very minor tweaks. Browning produced a modern 71 a while back. I expect that the modern 71 and the modern 86 have identical actions, but I don't know that for sure.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
They must be referring to an original 1886 vs a modern Marlin 1895 and, as I mentioned earlier, the problem would be the chamber area, not the action. Many early original 1886's were not made with the smokeless nickel steel barrels, so the chamber area will not handle the pressures that the chamber area of a modern Marlin. However, if we are talking modern 86 vs modern Marlin 1895, the modern 86 is most definitely stronger.
To get an idea of the modern 1886 action's capabilities, consider the 475 Turnbull, which is chambered on the modern 1886 action. ht****tp://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=20788.
This is an African cartridge. A few different factory loadings are available for the 475 Turnbull, including one that delivers a 450 grain bullet out the barrel at 2,050 fps for a muzzle energy of 4,198 foot pounds. There is no way a modern Marlin action would handle this round safely. A lot of fellows are also chambering the 50 Alaskan in their modern 1886's. Some modern Marlins have been chambered in the 50 Alaskan, but I know of two failures thus far and some of the American gunsmiths will no longer chamber Marlins for the 50 Alaskan.
Anyway, I have little interest in the strength of the modern 1886 or the modern 1895. I've owned both and was thoroughly pleased with both. Of course, I'm happy with traditional ballistics and reload accordingly. I no longer have my Marlin 1895 but I still have my Browning 1886 SRC and hope I never have to part with it. The Marlin has the advantage of being able to cycle easier and faster and is also simpler to dismantle if a fellow wants to take apart the action. Both are great rifles and actions.
The 71's have tapered locking lugs, allows the action to open in case of of extreme pressures. I wont say the 71 is superior to the 86 but very similar with the nod goin to the 71 in superior materials in its day..a moot point today.
Many good articles on levers , seems some believe true levers only eject towards the heavens
