Swiss and Swede on EE

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This is the one I have they might not look like much but there fantastic guns I have two ones a basket case that some Mexican shortened the barrel on and shortened the grip length so he could conceal it better the other one I have looks like the one in the picture its so well made and there very accurate to.
Id still take a remington 1875 or SAA Colt in 44 Special over this gun tho for bush packing that is. the 8 mm just don't have the knock down power of a decent loaded 44 Sp I don't care how much the tiny bullets poke holes in dry wood SWC 250 gr bullet cuts full caliber holes in stuff and that bleeds stuff out faster than knitting needle sized holes :)



http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies p/a pieper h revolver mexicain gb.htm
 
Polls are the equivalent to "so what is the best rifle"... and of course, invariably, whatever people own become their first pick... big surprize!

In the end, I have owned and/or shot numerous antique pistols in a myriad of calibres... these are the people whose opinions I would wish to gauge.

Open polls are often the equivalent to high school playground bully tactics--the majority lynch the minority and push their views. BTW, who's arguing?
 
dingus said:
This is the one I have they might not look like much but there fantastic guns I have two ones a basket case that some Mexican shortened the barrel on and shortened the grip length so he could conceal it better the other one I have looks like the one in the picture its so well made and there very accurate to.
Id still take a remington 1875 or SAA Colt in 44 Special over this gun tho for bush packing that is. the 8 mm just don't have the knock down power of a decent loaded 44 Sp I don't care how much the tiny bullets poke holes in dry wood SWC 250 gr bullet cuts full caliber holes in stuff and that bleeds stuff out faster than knitting needle sized holes :)

http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies p/a pieper h revolver mexicain gb.htm
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Tell that to the black rifle crowd that apparently fire "poodle shooters".

BTW, are we using antique handguns for hunting or "stopping power"? ;)
 
But get the book I recommended, it is breathtaking. I've helped a few folks out with disassembly and reassembly of Webleys already.
It really does have almost all of the good ones.
But don't compare antique rounds and black rifles, that's just silly and makes you look the same
 
mkrnel said:
Here you go Olivier -

http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies p/a pieper h revolver mexicain gb.htm

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/biography-henri-nicolas-pieper/

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Wow ! Thank you ! What a nice gun Dingus have... I'm jalous Yes ! I'm verry jalous...
 
tokguy said:
But get the book I recommended, it is breathtaking. I've helped a few folks out with disassembly and reassembly of Webleys already.
It really does have almost all of the good ones.
But don't compare antique rounds and black rifles, that's just silly and makes you look the same
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no, actually my analogy was that it's the same argument: 223 vs 308... apples to apples.

I will agree that factory 32 is pretty anemic, and I much prefer 38 Special, but you can load 32 to be pretty wicked, and I only handload as Swiss ammo is obsolete.

***

Out of respect to certain esteemed members here (!), it may be a good idea to end the conversation as it pertains to "bleed holes" and "stopping power" (!)... as both are 100% irrelevant to antique pistol ownership in this country and cause for ending a thread. Neither are factors for me, even though I demonstrated in a classy way that a lightly loaded 32 can still easily penetrate a 4x4! Which says it's an effective round even SOFTLY loaded.
 
The Kurgan said:
no, actually my analogy was that it's the same argument: 223 vs 308... apples to apples.

I will agree that factory 32 is pretty anemic, and I much prefer 38 Special, but you can load 32 to be pretty wicked, and I only handload as Swiss ammo is obsolete.

***

Out of respect to certain esteemed members here (!), it may be a good idea to end the conversation as it pertains to "bleed holes" and "stopping power" (!)... as both are 100% irrelevant to antique pistol ownership in this country and cause for ending a thread. Neither are factors for me, even though I demonstrated in a classy way that a lightly loaded 32 can still easily penetrate a 4x4! Which says it's an effective round even SOFTLY loaded.
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Interestingly. The us military used pine boards... Some of the "experts" around here kill me. Wtf
 
tokguy said:
The Nagant was really good for executing folks with one in the back of the head. That's not combat. And 3rd world countries tend to take any free weapons.
Put it to a poll; 32 or 45? Over the top, which one?
That ought to settle it, no...?
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I doubt that the Russians would make and issue so many (around 2 million made) with a around 100gr. bullet traveling at 1100 fps with a effective range of 60 meters that is very close to a .32 H&R Magnum for just point blank range, back of the head, executioner use.

Why would I ask most CGN users here what they prefer to go over the top with as you request?

How many here do you think had or have any actual combat experience with a handgun as their available or primary weapon? I'm pretty sure it is close to zero except for one or two emergency scenarios.

I spent 12 years in the Army and my sole experience with revolvers and pistols was during range practice and qualifying with the weapon. My primary weapon was a GPMG.

I spent lots of time on the army ranges with issue browning Hi Powers and S&W .38's and with practice I could reliably hit a figure 11 at 100 yards with most of a mag with the tangent sighted model and the .38's. I also shot a 1911 a lot and was lucky with most to get any round on a figure 11 at 25 yards as they were nowhere near as accurate in the issue versions I got to handle and use.

It is way better to have a handgun that you know that you have a good chance of hitting the target with even if it does not knock the guy off his feet, over one that may hit harder but which you may not even hit the target with. That is why every military and police force in the world switched over to smaller calibre handguns that they know the user has a better chance of hitting his target with.

BTW, the most favored Russian used handgun for that role was a small German made .32 auto.

This guy looks like he means business and not as a back of the head executor style type -

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Turn of the century power in a handgun isn't comparable to high velocity military rounds developed in the '50's. A tad different, eh?
Notice that Germany kicked their 7.63 to the curb in favor of a 9mm?
And the US tried the 38 LC and found it severely lacking in stopping power. Not in velocity numbers, but in ' It doesn't put 'em down ' experience.
 
tokguy expanded on my earlier comment that the Germans liked to use Nagants for mass executions... which is sadly true. However, to say that these revolvers were/are ineffective is just plain moronic. The Russians, and other countries, used them in more battles than we can count.
 
tokguy said:
Turn of the century power in a handgun isn't comparable to high velocity military rounds developed in the '50's. A tad different, eh?
Notice that Germany kicked their 7.63 to the curb in favor of a 9mm?
And the US tried the 38 LC and found it severely lacking in stopping power. Not in velocity numbers, but in ' It doesn't put 'em down ' experience.
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Again, for the third time, my point was that your comparison of 32 vs 45 in antique pistols is the same as comparing 223 and 308. The argument is unwinnable.
 
Deuce-deuce said:
Interestingly. The us military used pine boards... Some of the "experts" around here kill me. Wtf
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yes and a 45 colt Black powder load can go thru a lot more 1 inch pine boards than a 7.5 swiss I think its 8 boards 1 inch thick with a 1 inch gap between them.
I have done tests with 44 sp SWC keith 250 gr lead bullets they have great penetration using 2400 smokeless loads I have had and shot plenty of 7.5s and they just don't compare.
Ive bought and shot almost every antique handgun out there in 12 years and only have a few 8mm guns the rest are all 45 and 44 caliber. But that's just me if you like 7.5s buy a 7.5 but trying to say there better at killing than a 45 or 44 cal bullet is not what I have seen.

In the USA where a lot of guys can hunt with handguns there mainly using 44 and 45 caliber guns as they have the shock power to keep and big animal down.
If you read Elmer keith book SIX GUNS he talks a lot about penetration and hunting with a handgun one of his favorites is the 44 sp. Keith knew his stuff to more than any of us here I would guess.
 
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mkrnel said:
I doubt that the Russians would make and issue so many (around 2 million made) with a 100gr. bullet traveling at 1100 fps with a effective range of 60 meters that is very close to a .32 H&R Magnum for just point blank range, back of the head, executioner use.

...It is way better to have a handgun that you know that you have a good chance of hitting the target with even if it does not knock the guy off his feet, over one that may hit harder but which you may not even hit the target with. That is why every military and police force in the world switched over to smaller calibre handguns that they know the user has a better chance of hitting his target with.
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Ya think? :)
 
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