Swiss Arms rifles being examined for reclassification?

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250rg said:
540 root, 550 limb, pe90 another limb share the same root. I think it comes down to semantics. The design had to start from the 540 plans and not the 550 even if the 550 and pe90 share traits its where the designer started from. maybe?
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Yep - this is gonna turn into a battle of semantics.

Hopefully the person arguing for the SAN rifle is able to make a compelling case of a weak point, and the RCMP is willing to accept the argument as sufficient grounds to maintain the status quo.

Having said that, this is really a unique case - without precedent. Here we have a possible variant of a prohib firearm that has been in our midst for what - 12 years? And during that time there has been zero issues with it's presence in our society.

Now we all know why we can't have a prohibited firearm - but the reasoning behind not allowing a prohib variant is a little sketchy. Apparently we are not allowed the variant because is more likely to be easily converted to full automatic than a 'normal' rifle. Okay then - anyone else see the flaw in this reasoning re: the SAN rifle? The RCMP already freely admits that converting this rifle easily, and within a reasonable amount of time, is not the issue - this has been indisputably proven over the last 12 years The only issue here is the SAN's lineage - in other words, not what the actually is (a safe firearm), but it's relationship to some other firearm. Jeez - I'm awfully happy I'm not judged poorly because of some of my acquaintances ....

Sooooo wouldn't logic dictate that the thought process behind the variant rule is flawed? Wouldn't it make sense that the RCMP should check all variants of a prohib firearm to weed out the unsuitable clones from the acceptable versions? Yeah, I know this would probably be a lot of work, but you know what? - sounds like a dream job to me!!!!!!!!!

Just to end this rant, both of mine are restricted, so yes, I'd take the grandfathered route over tearfully giving up my 'children' ... If it's gonna be a paper weight - its gonna be my paper weight!

Abby
 
cr5 said:
This may be a tad inappropriate at this point but the more I analyze the statement made (mostly by TSE and CSC) the more appalled I am at where this is headed.

So TSE, if this goes sour are you going to make it up to all of us by buying all our SA rifles back at full retail including tax and all our magazines then deal with turning them into the RCMP yourself? Seems fair to me. None of us have done anything wrong other than buy a beautiful rifle from a trusted retailer.
Seems like you've made a lot of money off us and now thrown everyone under the bus in an attempt to make your competition look bad without seeing the big picture before acting. It was your 2 "control" rifles that are the reason this has exploded into the s#itstorm this has become. Had you simply supplied current inventory they would have looked at them all and said "hmmm.... no problems here carry on and thank you for your concern you diligent responsible Canadian firearms retailer". Now... well we all know what's around the next corner if documentation isn't provided in time to save our rifles.

If this goes bad you will have one chance to have even the slightest chance I ever walk through your doors again and considering I am a DTA SRS owner that I bought new from you and I also own a SA and many other $2000+ rifles I hope that means something to you as to how valuable a customer I am to keep. Also keep in mind we all know many other gun owners and bad news spreads quickly. I foresee a drastic drop in your regular client base if we all get left twirling in the wind with no compensation. I really don't care how much this costs you if it comes to buying them back as long as it doesn't cost me for what you've done.

If I have the facts wrong or have misread some of your statements please correct me but if I lose my SA because of the two sample rifles you dug out of some box you had hidden in the basement from 10 years ago I won't be shopping with you again.
I would like to know where those two rifles came from, who imported them, when they were imported, how many were in that shipment, the info that you should have supplied when trying to explain why those were selected as the control samples you sent to the RCMP instead of rifles from a fresh shipment. The documentation should be available from the importer so share with us and gain some trust back. If the RCMP know how many C/A are out there and owners of those can bring them in and exchange them for a new rifle maybe the RCMP will leave the rest of them and us alone.

At this point I don't think letters to our MP's or the PM are going to do anything because in this case it seems that the RCMP are only going on the information they have been provided by TSE and are trying to correct a mistake they think was made 12 years ago due to false information provided 12 years ago. Not realizing the false information was just given to them in the form of the two control samples.
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Maybe it's on purpose???? You lose your Swiss arms and live in Alberta and need new gun now???? Just sayin
 
blaxsun said:
I think I'd rather be compensated and own an XCR-L instead. There, I said it (waiting for lightning to strike...) ;)
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Juat wait they'll get to that rifle eventually... But yah I was actually checking wanstalls an hour ago for the xcr-l, they have a nice tiger one too!
 
Ar180shooter said:
Most people start out with a NR rifle, and are then drawn in to the god-like awesomeness that is the Swiss Arms platform, and they have to have a carbine version.

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Thanks for coming out. :rolleyes:
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I know what these rifles cost to import, and its a lot less than the asking price... A lot less. The restricted is definitely not worth the asking price, and the NR rifles are too long, too heavy, fixed LOP, and not conducive to mounting optics. Other than that, they're awesome, but still grossly over priced.

You sir, have two very nice rifles. ;)

TDC
 
Chago said:
Maybe it's on purpose???? You lose your Swiss arms and live in Alberta and need new gun now???? Just sayin
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Well if I lose my SA I sure won't be buying it's replacement from someone I think is responsible for it being taken away.

Lets try to settle down a little till we see what happens on the expedition to Switzerland next week. Hopefully they can get the paperwork needed and just offer an exchange program to the owners of the ones with the C/A receivers that slipped through and this can all blow over.
 
TDC said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I know what these rifles cost to import, and its a lot less than the asking price... A lot less. The restricted is definitely not worth the asking price, and the NR rifles are too long, too heavy, fixed LOP, and not conducive to mounting optics. Other than that, they're awesome, but still grossly over priced.

You sir, have two very nice rifles. ;)

TDC
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I've heard that from several people, but I haven't ever been shown any numbers. Also, as food for thought... Our CG rifles are about on par price wise with 550SP rifles that are sold in Europe.
 
TDC said:
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I know what these rifles cost to import, and its a lot less than the asking price... A lot less. The restricted is definitely not worth the asking price, and the NR rifles are too long, too heavy, fixed LOP, and not conducive to mounting optics. Other than that, they're awesome, but still grossly over priced.

Ok give - what's the numbers?
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Just a general comment: Instead of continually lambasting the RCMP, CFC and CPC for their roles in this (or lack thereof) - perhaps we should be focusing our attention on the companies that precipitated these changes by importing firearms that differed from what was originally approved. I'd say that clearly we're dealing with Pandora's Box, but that we (the firearms community) were the ones who foolishly opened it.

It's a catch-22 to fault the RCMP lab for simply following through with their review of the Swiss Arms when we (the firearms community) were entirely responsible for requesting it in the first place. I sincerely hope things work out in our favour, but if not - it's pretty apparent who's solely responsible.
 
blaxsun said:
Just a general comment: Instead of continually lambasting the RCMP, CFC and CPC for their roles in this (or lack thereof) - perhaps we should be focusing our attention on the companies that precipitated these changes by importing firearms that differed from what was originally approved. I'd say that clearly we're dealing with Pandora's Box, but that we (the firearms community) were the ones who foolishly opened it.

It's a catch-22 to fault the RCMP lab for simply following through with their review of the Swiss Arms when we (the firearms community) were entirely responsible for requesting it in the first place. I sincerely hope things work out in our favour, but if not - it's pretty apparent who's solely responsible.
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WE requested a review of a rifle???? I don't remember doing that...
 
Chago said:
WE requested a review of a rifle???? I don't remember doing that...
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Yes, "we." These are the entities "we" support and entrust on our behalf to not f**k things up with respect to the importation and sale of firearms. And when they do, and "we" suffer the consequences - the first thing "we" do is absolve them of any responsibility and give them another chance. So if "we're" not going to hold them accountable for their actions, "we're" just as culpable.
 
blaxsun said:
Yes, "we." These are the entities "we" support and entrust on our behalf to not f**k things up with respect to the importation and sale of firearms. And when they do, and "we" suffer the consequences - the first thing "we" do is absolve them of any responsibility and give them another chance. So if "we're" not going to hold them accountable for their actions, "we're" just as culpable.
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Your point is valid if this has happened before and we allowed them to continue. But I'm not sure if this is the case. You can't say it's all Canadian gun owners fault that two individuals burned us. So if I shoot and kill someone with a xcr cause I'm crazy. Then later the rcmp bans xcr. Is that the fault of the gun community or just me being crazy
 
Recce21 said:
JR and The Shooting Edge are wholly responsible for this mess in my eyes.
Unless I missed something in their response.
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Just so I'm straight as I have read this all but it's pretty exhausting. Tse was the one who blew the whistle a little prematurely I understand that. But isn't Csc being accused of knowingly importing refurb guns without inspecting them to be sure there not c/a? Or had that been proven as false?
 
cr5 said:
I would like to know where those two rifles came from,

-who imported them,
-when they were imported,
-how many were in that shipment,
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For your info, the two reference receivers they got: one was from 2006 import/production, the other was from 2013 import/production.

- TSE Imported them
- One came in in a 2006 Import
- The other from 2013 import
- As for how many, I do not know...

Chago said:
Just so I'm straight as I have read this all but it's pretty exhausting. Tse was the one who blew the whistle a little prematurely I understand that. But isn't Csc being accused of knowingly importing refurb guns without inspecting them to be sure there not c/a? Or had that been proven as false?
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Where do you people come up with this stuff?? Do you even read anymore??

CSC imported refurbed rifles legally and had them sold at a discounted price. SAN has provided a letter clearly stating that these are semi-auto built receivers, and the RCMP have signed off on the refurb guns, stating the one they examined was a purpose built semi auto upper.
 
Chago said:
Your point is valid if this has happened before and we allowed them to continue. But I'm not sure if this is the case. You can't say it's all Canadian gun owners fault that two individuals burned us. So if I shoot and kill someone with a xcr cause I'm crazy. Then later the rcmp bans xcr. Is that the fault of the gun community or just me being crazy
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It certainly did. The RCMP didn't review and implement new guidelines for classification just for the hell of it... Cases in-point: T97, FN Scar. If we don't hold those responsible accountable for their actions, then we're equally culpable...

Chago said:
But isn't Csc being accused of knowingly importing refurb guns without inspecting them to be sure there not c/a? Or had that been proven as false?
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The RCMP determined that the refurbished firearms imported by the CSC were the only ones that actually met the criteria (being a purpose-built semi-automatic).
 
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