T2 Garand - Part 1

[beltfed]

Carefully strip all of the metal from the wood stocks and clean all of the metal with mineral spirits or varsol, then promptly oil metal parts with a CLP.
Lots of ways to clean up the wood: generally you want to gently clean off the cosmoline using non-destructive methods, sweating it out of the wood using moderate/light applications of heat helps, and re-apply a raw linseed oil finish.

 

[Dyspnea]

Mine showed up just now, it's covered with gooey Cosmo.

I purchased the unmatched, but honestly the wood on this rifle is really close in color, not worth the extra $150 for matching in my mind.

I'm only able to take crummy cell phone photos



No markings on the barrel, unless for some reason they would be under the rear handguard



Gas plug marked PB



Op rod marked "NM" on the top by the charging handle. And also mark 7.62 like the previous photo. The picture show a rusty portion, but it is not rust.






Op rod spring length is 19 1/4 inches



.308 spacer



Tigger group marked pb, hammer marked "br". Haven't torn the group down further to check other markings.



Front sight is not "leaning"



Only visible stock marking

Rear sight elevation and windage are marked pb. Receiver is PB in the 4000 range.

Overall im happy with it. Regardless if it is a T2 or not.

 

[Hitzy]

Op rod marked "NM" on the top by the charging handle. And also mark 7.62 like the previous photo. The picture show a rusty portion, but it is not rust.

That sounds like a US .308 conversion oprod, which would have been done in the 60's by the Navy and definitely not sent to Italy.

 

[FlightRN]

Good day,
The Navy conversions utilized standard length OP rods. The Itailans used recycled op rods so a post production (after 1958) NM Op rod would be fine. In the previous picture provided, the barrel appears to be current proof marked on the bottom near the muzzle (possibly a German proofing?)
Regards,
Michael

 

[Hitzy]

Good day,
The Navy conversions utilized standard length OP rods. The Itailans used recycled op rods so a post production (after 1958) NM Op rod would be fine. In the previous picture provided, the barrel appears to be current proof marked on the bottom near the muzzle (possibly a German proofing?)
Regards,
Michael

How would a Navy NM oprod get to Italy in the 60's for these to be built? Makes no sense....US didn't surplus these in the '60s.
Anyway, everything points to these being parts kits, nothing correctly marked, Dane receivers, hopefully they were built by someone who knows what they are doing...

 

[firstson]

Sounds like a lot of folks not getting what was advertised. It would have cost less to build one from parts. Do it correctly and know what you have got.

 

[Hitzy]

Sounds like a lot of folks not getting what was advertised. It would have cost less to build one from parts. Do it correctly and know what you have got.

Agreed, and here is a vid of proper ejection pattern, compare that to the Marstar video.
[YouTube]xF5CdczuMTA[/YouTube]
The real question is would you still pay $2000+/- now that you know these are not Terni T2's and have no historical or collector significance? I'd argue that a full length commercial .308 barreled M1 would have more value then these bubba'd up T2's due to the interchangeable parts. Can't even call them repros or humps as they don't even have the correct markings/parts lol.

 

[marcus1866]

Regarding the op rod, I found this on the Fulton Armory website.

"The final op rod design is that with drawing number 7790722-RA (Remington Arms) or -SA (Springfield Armory). I like to call it the "77" op rod, but as it is often found stamped "NM" it is widely known as the National Match op rod. It had a subtle change to the tube's curve to fit it somewhat more tightly around the barrel. This design was originally intended for and used in the building of Type 2 National Match rifles at Springfield. When the supply of good op rods dried up, this design was used for general rebuilds in the '60's. Quite a few went to Korea and have come back again as parts and on rifles. You'll see them both with and without the "NM" marking, but the rods are identical nonetheless."

 

[purple]

I've had Tipo 2 op rods that were made by IHC, HRA, and Springfield Armory late war and post war variants so it's entirely possible that any make of op rods could have been modified to the Tipo 2 type.

 

[#1bcshooter]

Sounds like a lot of folks not getting what was advertised. It would have cost less to build one from parts. Do it correctly and know what you have got.

They locked the original thread in their forum as soon as they posted them for sale .
Now he's gone silent in this thread since people are calling him out on not being as advertised .
As others have said the product doesn't match what was advertised .
At least they have an Iron Clad guarantee so those disappointed can return their product .
Those looking to profit from these guns by reselling (so called rare rifle) in the EE are going to have a tough time.

PS I'm not yelling !
Just being BOLD

 

[Claven2]

I've tried to resist posting in this thread... but I just can't help it.

It's painfully obvious to me that these were not assembled in the 1970's or earlier as claimed in the ad type. Barrels with no military markings and modern etched markings hidden up under gas cylinder, as well as a mix of surface rusted parts assembled on cleanly parkerized actions speak to the possibility of very recently assembled parts guns with newly produced barrels and a hodge lodge of parts in various states/conditions. As far as I'm aware, the Danes did not release any FKF receivers of any flavour until the 1990's, and unless someone has proof otherwise, it's unlikely any of those were configured as 7.62x51 variants.

I'm not pretending I know what the story is here, but the retailer likely knows the background behind these guns and should disclose the origin of them to people who faithfully tried to purchase a real T2 that is not a recent commercial put-together.

Some people bought these as shooters and are likely happy. I'm sure they work fine. Those looking for a collectible deserve to know the true origin of these firearms to either prove or disprove their authenticity. It's a question of business ethics.

My $.02 worth.

 

[Hitzy]

Why I handload and don't shoot cheap #### commercial ammo.....
[Youtube]TleMPyDq56s[/YouTube]
Don't feed your $2000 Garands the cheapest steel case crap you can buy.
Save that stuff for the Nork's.

 

[delta1]

Two hundred rifles at the price these sold for. An ad that's written with literary imbullishment . Ethical ?

 

[Hitzy]

I've tried to resist posting in this thread... but I just can't help it.

It's painfully obvious to me that these were not assembled in the 1970's or earlier as claimed in the ad type. Barrels with no military markings and modern etched markings hidden up under gas cylinder, as well as a mix of surface rusted parts assembled on cleanly parkerized actions speak to the possibility of very recently assembled parts guns with newly produced barrels and a hodge lodge of parts in various states/conditions. As far as I'm aware, the Danes did not release any FKF receivers of any flavour until the 1990's, and unless someone has proof otherwise, it's unlikely any of those were configured as 7.62x51 variants.

I'm not pretending I know what the story is here, but the retailer likely knows the background behind these guns and should disclose the origin of them to people who faithfully tried to purchase a real T2 that is not a recent commercial put-together.

Some people bought these as shooters and are likely happy. I'm sure they work fine. Those looking for a collectible deserve to know the true origin of these firearms to either prove or disprove their authenticity. It's a question of business ethics.

My $.02 worth.

I didn't buy anything from Marstar for 10 years after the VZ58 fiasco....when they played semantics with what "NEW" meant with me when I got a well used rifle that kind of set the tone of where their priorities laid. Oh I got the "ironclad guarantee" speech, but I didn't really think that should excuse false advertising. I would have gladly exchanged for a NEW condition rifle, sadly they had none. I think you even fired it at EOHC and the trigger gremlin showed up, locking the trigger up solid....lol. I suspect if someone wants a T2 as advertised, they will get the same treatment...
Funny thing they did with the Hirtenberger recently too....they stated there was no way for them to tell the difference between the berdan or boxer primed, yet somehow once the berdan was all sold they could identify the boxer primed.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1294184-Reloadable-7-62x51-nato
Plus the locked T2 thread....looks like they know what's up.

 

[SA85M1]

2K for a mismatched parts gun..?..Jeebus..

 

[mr.e moose]

Meh. Nothing to argue about. Marstar shows them sold out. The new buyers may grace this forum in the future, lets wait for their opinion's.

 

[KND]

Alright, I did bought two rifles, never in the beginning that I intend to buy this rifle for a history purpose, it's just for the sake of having a M1 garand that shot cheap ammo, look good and shot good, That's all.

Honestly, for my time to collect the parts, paid the tax, shipping and the tool, it would cost more than 1750 $. Last time, I saw a 308 win M1 garand at Eppswood were sold for close to 1500 $, not in that condition from marstar.

I'm sure a few people are pretty much on the same boat.

 

[#1bcshooter]

The OP should rename this thread "Inferior commercial conversion 308 Garands"

 

[tommyinbc]

Alright, I did bought two rifles, never in the beginning that I intend to buy this rifle for a history purpose, it's just for the sake of having a M1 garand that shot cheap ammo, look good and shot good, That's all.

Honestly, for my time to collect the parts, paid the tax, shipping and the tool, it would cost more than 1750 $. Last time, I saw a 308 win M1 garand at Eppswood were sold for close to 1500 $, not in that condition from marstar.

I'm sure a few people are pretty much on the same boat.

That's fine and glad your happy, but it seems they are not what was advertised. I would have purchased this rifle based on its military heritage / Italian background. Thankfully I missed the 'offer'...Phew...

 

[Brutus]

Why I handload and don't shoot cheap #### commercial ammo.....
[Youtube]TleMPyDq56s[/YouTube]
Don't feed your $2000 Garands the cheapest steel case crap you can buy.
Save that stuff for the Nork's.

I have believed myself that if a western made rifle of any kind was used my any army/major police or paramilitary force since the end of WWII, and fed this rifle brass cased ammunition, that we should continue to do exactly thus when they have been surplused out.

I think so myself that at the very least, the practice of using these rifles with steel cased ammunition has to be very strenuous on the extractor.
A hard extraction perhaps, when working gas pressures are at their worst!
Worst case scenario a blown case in the web area or worse maybe.

my 2 bits