Tavor accuracy @ 25,100 and 200 meters
- Thread starter Dutchie
- Start date
Yup, for some reason. (Probably $$) we get the qual for the year on the 25M Range. Don't worry, I filled out the course critique and argued that 100M is the minimum...Low readiness guys, can get the qual for just doing TOET's and the Sat trainer!
The CF are in for some dark times again. Just like the 90's.
The CF are in for some dark times again. Just like the 90's.
boss351cleveland
CGN frequent flyer
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X2 im 6'5 and no issues , one of the best shooing rifles i have from the standing position , not a ideal bench rest shooter buts thats not what its meant for .
Ah shiet, unit fight! What does it matter dude? He did his PWT 1 at 25m, that sounds kind of like a prone gunfighter to me. Better than just writing it off after the SAT trainer and calling it a day.
I get to try out the SA80 here in the next month or so, so I'll see how a bullpup service rifle feels for myself(although I've heard the SA80 is a piece, it will still be interesting).
Ya, I don't remember being closer than 100m on my PWT1 in Nanaimo...
We got to "expend all remaining ammo" (6 rounds) at 25m on my PWT3
And last I heard, you're not supposed to wear CF issued gear except when you're working. Don't mean to piss on your parade, but you might want to keep some details on the DL.
I believe by "useless" he's referring to the fact that the design puts way too much stress on the tiny roll pin (especially during stoppage drills) holding it there causing it to brake frequently. Ergonomically it's great, in reality it is a major weak point. Mr. Crocker has admitted this himself in the past from what I'm told by some of the crusty old guys.
And yeah, not to beat a dead horse but the Army has already spent a gajillion dollars on 'upgrading' the C7, so like it or lump it we're stuck with it for at least another 15 years I'd say... (personally I love the C8, the C7 in it's new config. is awfully heavy though). It's not really some Gov't secret, the new rifles can be seen on Colt Canada's web site and Colt Canada is the sole manufacturer/refurb of arms for Canada and many other NATO countries (excluding a few notables).
...And yeah...PWT1 @ 25? 25 is for snap/urban warfare/gunfighter drills...sounds questionable at best.
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Seems to be a whole lot of 'Ahem, ahem, excuse me, thank you, yes. I AM in the Military. And I shot a PWT once too.' haha I'd be stoked if we got TAR-21's in as our new battle rifle, who wouldn't be? But like it's been said before, we're heavily invested in the C7, and the best we're like to see is the C8 steadily phasing it out. Although I suppose we are still allowed to dream.
I can't find the entry where it says that 20M range is suitable for PWT1. Might be a General work instruction for the Readiness Training Team. Someone got permission to authorise the quals. Like I said earlier, it must come down to money and not bussing the whole crew out to the 100M range is probably saving the base lots. (Which makes it ok...?...right?) haha.
In reference to the PWT weather it be at 20M or 100M.
"Tests skills at various firing positions up to 100 m.
PWT training is based on the soldier’s ability to zero and group their assigned weapons in all firing positions within prescribed standards.
It contains all the necessary work up training to enable personnel to fire and pass the PWT 1. In the case of recruits, the training must be conducted progressively through the training range practices. In the case of trained soldiers, these range practices may be used in conjunction with the Small Arms Trainer (SAT) to practise and reinforce the shooting skills before attempting the Test. This is the first step in successfully completing the annual PWT(s) as prescribed in B-GL-383-003/FP-001 Individual Battle Task Standards (IBTS).
4. Stage 1 is conducted on both simulators and conventional ranges. Where Stage 1 is conducted primarily on conventional ranges, practise on simulators should be completed prior to advancing to live fire training. Weapons ranges, types of targets and grouping standards are outlined in each weapons annex. A soldier must pass the PWT 1 prior to advancing to Stage 2—Elementary Application and PWT 2.
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It was a curiosity. I'm not trying to start anything and I don't remember asking you anything anyway.... was I talking to you?
I guess it wouldn't be CGN without you being CGN about it.
Oh, the internet.
Just pointing out that it didn't matter what unit he's from, you're from, or I'm from. He could be JTF2, would that make it okay to shoot at 25m? No? You don't care? Good, neither do I.
We are getting off topic now though, this thread was about inducting the Tavor into Military service, not the questionability of doing a PWT 1 at 25m.
Yeah that got me looking into other things as well! At least I got out shooting today, and that's all that matters. If anyone else has similar results, I'd like to see them. Better or worse. So far, as far as I can tell, the Tavor is holding up it's end on the CF's standard. If I could only try PWT2 and PWT3 at longer ranges and see how she performs.
I know what it is and isn't. The way he said it lead me to believe it's application isn't fully understood by him. Fact; it's free, exchangeable, and is adequate enough for its intended purpose.
Like I said, good review, but bull pup style weapons are not the best choice for combat rifles.
The "Fact" is that the cocking handle upgrade is combat unreliable. And it's "application" was in Afghanistan. Might be "adequate" for reserve units in Canada for their weekend at the range, but to depend your life on it. I think not. The ball was dropped on that one.
I'd like to hear some reasons why a bullpup rifle not a best choice for a combat arm. Seems to me that there are many armies that think otherwise.
1. Is there a Canadian made 5.56mm bullpup available?
2. Having the combat arms issued a different rifle than CS & CCS soldiers creates a problem with the supply system.
3. There will be laser and plasma rifles by the time the CF is done the contracting wars and testing for a new rifle
