Tavor TR21 Slam Fire

[DOOK]

I put almost 200 rounds of AE 62gr with no problems....after my uncle figured out he had to let the bolt go to get the first round chambered.
Had to pull a couple out that didn't quite feed properly. The bolt didn't fully close. After that, everything was wavy gravy.

 

[TDC]

I call BS on the Mil Spec 5.56 belief. If the firing pin is indeed "heavier" to permit reliable ignition of "hard mil spec primers" then I guess every AR15 ever sold must be running a "light weight civvie ammo" firing pin. Oh hold on, I've shot both civvie and genuine mil spec ammo through my AR's with zero issues. Its definitely a design issue, and its not the ammo. If the rifle(s) were doubling and slam firing with reloads, I would say its probably ammo related. Seeing as how the issues are with factory ammo, I find it hard to believe its ammo related. Regardless, if the rifle is "designed" for so called harder mil spec primers, then the rifle is of little value to anyone outside the mil.

TDC

 

[b-wingpilot]

I call BS on the Mil Spec 5.56 belief. If the firing pin is indeed "heavier" to permit reliable ignition of "hard mil spec primers" then I guess every AR15 ever sold must be running a "light weight civvie ammo" firing pin. Oh hold on, I've shot both civvie and genuine mil spec ammo through my AR's with zero issues.
TDC

Oil your firing pin, use benchrest/match grade primers, fire ~1k and report back. You will probably have a double.

 

[beltfed]

I call BS on the Mil Spec 5.56 belief. If the firing pin is indeed "heavier" to permit reliable ignition of "hard mil spec primers" then I guess every AR15 ever sold must be running a "light weight civvie ammo" firing pin. Oh hold on, I've shot both civvie and genuine mil spec ammo through my AR's with zero issues. Its definitely a design issue, and its not the ammo. If the rifle(s) were doubling and slam firing with reloads, I would say its probably ammo related. Seeing as how the issues are with factory ammo, I find it hard to believe its ammo related. Regardless, if the rifle is "designed" for so called harder mil spec primers, then the rifle is of little value to anyone outside the mil.

TDC

This statement above makes a good point. I've done some informal testing of primers (205s, 205M, Winchester, CCI regular, Remington, and CCI #41s) seated to the same depth in brass, chambered the 'round' in an AR and let the bolt fly home. In all instances the primer 'dimple' left was the same size regardless of which primer. Does this disprove primers have differing 'hardness'?-certainly not, but I've never had a slam fire in ARs, and I would question the ammo and specifically the primers as being the cause.

 

[beltfed]

Oil your firing pin, use benchrest/match grade primers, fire ~1k and report back. You will probably have a double.

Or not.
I have put down about 18000 rounds in the last three years that used match grade primers without issue.

 

[TDC]

Oil your firing pin, use benchrest/match grade primers, fire ~1k and report back. You will probably have a double.

Why would you oil your firing pin?? That there is your first mistake. Again, I mentioned reloads could be an issue. This case doesn't involve reloads making your suggestions null and void.

Why anyone would attempt to create a match grade round for a COMBAT RIFLE is beyond me. Perhaps some should re-evaluate their criteria for a rifle prior to purchasing it on the 'look cool" factor alone.

TDC

 

[Slavex]

If I remember correctly AR's have suffered this very same thing, many many times.
as for making match grade ammo for the Tavor, why not? try to squeeze as much accuracy out of it as possible.

 

[kwonnypooh]

thanks guys and i am sorry i been away from home two days. well i dont know what to do. i been shooting almost 15 years and this is my second slam fire (one with chinese ar15 ) and this. i know tar-21 has no firing pin spring but not like this with factory round ?these days factorys worry about safety issue ( legal issue) more than anything . anyhow i dont know what to do. i just got email from a range officer that i am not DQ but i need to get this rifle fixed or i can not use it for the competition. well i just have to use a chinese ar-15.for me i love tar-12. it points well, stable, no kick and no need to add anything (not like ar-15) but slam fire is big no with factory rounds .anyhow i guess, i have to ship it back to get it fixed.i am not trying to rip off can ammo.i want to keep it and to be honest i will pay extra to keep it but how?
also ps can ammo could you please let me know the mailing address so i can ship to you. thanks guys for help

 

[CanFire]

Why anyone would attempt to create a match grade round for a COMBAT RIFLE is beyond me. Perhaps some should re-evaluate their criteria for a rifle prior to purchasing it on the 'look cool" factor alone.

If not for the "look cool" factor, then why buy a combat rifle at all? Last I heard, the military was still providing them for their soldiers.

Although the Tavor is new to Canada, I thought the Israli military has been using them for years (in limited quantity I know, but certainly in more quantity than CanadaAmmo has imported). Why do the Canadian models still have issues?

 

[CanAm]

If not for the "look cool" factor, then why buy a combat rifle at all? Last I heard, the military was still providing them for their soldiers.

Although the Tavor is new to Canada, I thought the Israli military has been using them for years (in limited quantity I know, but certainly in more quantity than CanadaAmmo has imported). Why do the Canadian models still have issues?

The Israelis have no issues because they use mil-spec ammo.

 

[CanFire]

The Israelis have no issues because they use mil-spec ammo.

And did your demo gun get shipped around the country with mil-spec ammo?

I'm still hoping it's something easy to replace like some rifles got shipped with a slightly out of spec firing pin or bolt.

 

[CanAm]

And did your demo gun get shipped around the country with mil-spec ammo?

I'm still hoping it's something easy to replace like some rifles got shipped with a slightly out of spec firing pin or bolt.

No, that is why we want to have a look at the pin. But, at this point ammo is my main focus. AR's, SKS's, M14's, etc all behave like this, some function forever with SAAMI ammo, some have slam fires and issues. I expect IWI will issue a "civie" firing pin upgrade, but I am waiting to hear back. Likely they have done very little, if any, testing with SAAMI ammo. Most of what they seem to use is M855 or M193 ball.

FWIW I shoot Norinco M193, Barnual steel cased, and PPU M193.

 

[kwonnypooh]

thanks can am i got it

thank you
i will hold on to it but i need to do something soon, i really like this rifle but if the rifle is not fixed or find the cause of this. i cant even use on the competition and i dont want to, you know i really dont want to blow up my foot. i am gonna get some ammo (south korean pmc right) and see what will happen.
thank you just let me know soon

 

[Slavex]

not sure how you'd blow up your foot dude. safe direction always. all it takes is for a bit of crap to be on the breach face and you can get a slamfire. Me, maybe someone should do some experimenting with springs and see what they can drop in there. the worst thing that can happen is it won't go bang.

 

[TDC]

If not for the "look cool" factor, then why buy a combat rifle at all? Last I heard, the military was still providing them for their soldiers.

My point is that some purchase a combat arm(pistol or rifle) then complain when it won't print sub MOA groups at 300 yards. The look cool factor seems to be the only criteria that many bother looking into. Same issue with optics or any other accessory. Many fail to set an intended purpose for their builds. They end up with a bunch of useless crap that fails to serve any one purpose effectively. For example. An AR15 with a reddot optic and a bipod. 11.5" AR15 with a magnified optic.

TDC

 

[Robbs]

No, that is why we want to have a look at the pin. But, at this point ammo is my main focus. AR's, SKS's, M14's, etc all behave like this, some function forever with SAAMI ammo, some have slam fires and issues.

Are you saying AR's have slam fire problems? Man I have fired thousands of rounds through C7's and C8's and various personal AR's I have had through time and never once had a slam fire. I can remember lots of times when my C7 was pretty filthy after prolonged field fire. Obviously there are issues to resolve with new TAVOR's it seems but why say these problems are common in other .556 combat rifles???? Especially lumping the AR, the worlds most proven battle rifle.

 

[scotty]

No, that is why we want to have a look at the pin. But, at this point ammo is my main focus. AR's, SKS's, M14's, etc all behave like this, some function forever with SAAMI ammo, some have slam fires and issues. I expect IWI will issue a "civie" firing pin upgrade, but I am waiting to hear back. Likely they have done very little, if any, testing with SAAMI ammo. Most of what they seem to use is M855 or M193 ball.

FWIW I shoot Norinco M193, Barnual steel cased, and PPU M193.

May I have/buy some Privi M193 pretty please?

Or perhaps,

"Please Sir, can I have some more?"

 

[acrashb]

I had routine slamfires on one of my AR's, using a lightweight carrier/buffer and federal primers. Switch to Winchestors, or change the carrier or buffer, and everything was fine.

 

[CanAm]

Are you saying AR's have slam fire problems? Man I have fired thousands of rounds through C7's and C8's and various personal AR's I have had through time and never once had a slam fire. I can remember lots of times when my C7 was pretty filthy after prolonged field fire. Obviously there are issues to resolve with new TAVOR's it seems but why say these problems are common in other .556 combat rifles???? Especially lumping the AR, the worlds most proven battle rifle.

If you were using a C7, you were likely also using C77 ball ammo.

 

[kwonnypooh]

well, i know i would not shoot my foot, i guess i expect too much from this rifle and this rifle really can do alot. amyhow i went to the range today and one of cop told me it may do something to with sear and he had two round auto fire at between 26 and 28 rounds(he had 30 rounds mag). i dont know maybe maybe not i am guessing still ammo issue.