Tavor TR21 Slam Fire
- Thread starter kwonnypooh
- Start date
I'm not sure sending the weapon back will do anything. This is a Military Combat Rifle, designed to shoot military Spec. ammo.
Anyone who is buying the gun and shooting commercial .223 may get the odd slam fire every now and then.
This is the same problem that happended with the FN FS2000 when it was introduced into the US civilian market. FN made upgrades to the FS2000 fire-ing pins to allow for shooting commercial .223 ammo. IWI may take the same action but then again maybe not.
Why is anyone surprised that a rifle with a floating firing pin may get a slam fire? It does happen with others including AR's and M16's. They are rare and in my experiences they are partly due to worn parts and .223 ammo. I've had slam fire's with AR's and with an M16 A1. They do happen and I don't mean to insult some of the poster's here but if you haven't experienced a slam fire then you haven't spent as much time around AR's and M16's as some us here have (it may also mean that your weapon and ammo is consistent and in good shape, as it should be, if this is the case good for you).
News flash, I have had slam fire's with an Steyr AUG. Steyr upgraded the AUG's firing pin a while back and guess what, included a captive firing pin spring on the firing pin. This was to allow for the uses of commercial .223 ammo.
Now I get to plug HK, for all the HK fans out there. I have never seen or heard of a slam fire with a HK SL8 or G36. Must be superior German engineering. And guess what; when HK updated the outdated AR15 / M16 they included an "firing" pin spring.
Rich LPS
P.S. No slam fire's with Swiss Arms / SIG's: the best Combat rifles in the world. I didn't say the lightest, just the best.
Anyone who is buying the gun and shooting commercial .223 may get the odd slam fire every now and then.
This is the same problem that happended with the FN FS2000 when it was introduced into the US civilian market. FN made upgrades to the FS2000 fire-ing pins to allow for shooting commercial .223 ammo. IWI may take the same action but then again maybe not.
Why is anyone surprised that a rifle with a floating firing pin may get a slam fire? It does happen with others including AR's and M16's. They are rare and in my experiences they are partly due to worn parts and .223 ammo. I've had slam fire's with AR's and with an M16 A1. They do happen and I don't mean to insult some of the poster's here but if you haven't experienced a slam fire then you haven't spent as much time around AR's and M16's as some us here have (it may also mean that your weapon and ammo is consistent and in good shape, as it should be, if this is the case good for you).
News flash, I have had slam fire's with an Steyr AUG. Steyr upgraded the AUG's firing pin a while back and guess what, included a captive firing pin spring on the firing pin. This was to allow for the uses of commercial .223 ammo.
Now I get to plug HK, for all the HK fans out there. I have never seen or heard of a slam fire with a HK SL8 or G36. Must be superior German engineering. And guess what; when HK updated the outdated AR15 / M16 they included an "firing" pin spring.
Rich LPS
P.S. No slam fire's with Swiss Arms / SIG's: the best Combat rifles in the world. I didn't say the lightest, just the best.
Great post Rich.
I also think there is some NITT-picking going on here.
1 question I have is where do we get Mil-spec primers such as CCI 41s or equivalent.
Would Rem. 7 1/2 Primers be a good alternative for guys that plan to reload?
I also think there is some NITT-picking going on here.
1 question I have is where do we get Mil-spec primers such as CCI 41s or equivalent.
Would Rem. 7 1/2 Primers be a good alternative for guys that plan to reload?
b-wingpilot
CGN Regular
- Location
- Sherwood Park
b-wing piolt,
You must have vast experience with Swiss Arms / Sig rifles.
Is this a picture of your 552 or CQB?
It looks like the roll pin that orientates the piston is missing. This could allow the piston to rotate around and loose contact with the rear surface of the bolt carrier, thus causing the crack. This is a no-no and like all weapons you should practice regular maintenace with your guns. This includes having a quick look and checking things over once and a while + proper cleaning. Search out some of the Swiss People on the board and other boards. They have never heard of these issues with the SG 552.
Now moving on to the SG550's and SG551's, are you putting all of these guns in the same group? Just curious, but I'll bet that you are not issued any of the select fire Swiss Arms guns.
As for pictures of broken guns, AR 15's / M16's have a few pictures kicking around of broken parts here and there.
My issued SG552 is at about the 5000 round count now. Only one jam and I think it was an ejected case that bounced off a pole I was shooting beside and back into the action. Not too many 9 inch barreled AR15's work very reliably and many have plenty of issues. At least the Swiss Arms SG552's function, just a little loud.
Back to the slam fires, floating pins have potential to make it happen. It's just excitement that the civilian or police user can do without.
Rich LPS
You must have vast experience with Swiss Arms / Sig rifles.
Is this a picture of your 552 or CQB?
It looks like the roll pin that orientates the piston is missing. This could allow the piston to rotate around and loose contact with the rear surface of the bolt carrier, thus causing the crack. This is a no-no and like all weapons you should practice regular maintenace with your guns. This includes having a quick look and checking things over once and a while + proper cleaning. Search out some of the Swiss People on the board and other boards. They have never heard of these issues with the SG 552.
Now moving on to the SG550's and SG551's, are you putting all of these guns in the same group? Just curious, but I'll bet that you are not issued any of the select fire Swiss Arms guns.
As for pictures of broken guns, AR 15's / M16's have a few pictures kicking around of broken parts here and there.
My issued SG552 is at about the 5000 round count now. Only one jam and I think it was an ejected case that bounced off a pole I was shooting beside and back into the action. Not too many 9 inch barreled AR15's work very reliably and many have plenty of issues. At least the Swiss Arms SG552's function, just a little loud.
Back to the slam fires, floating pins have potential to make it happen. It's just excitement that the civilian or police user can do without.
Rich LPS
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
acrashb,
I'm well aware of the old post, as you can see I posted numerous times in the same thread. As I stated before when you loose the roll pin in the SG552 bolt carrier and don't check it the piston can rotate around. This causes it to loose contact with the rear of the bolt carrier and possibly break the bolt carrier in extreame circumstances.
Proper checks, cleaning and maintenace to prevent it, as with all weapons.
Having said that the SG553 will probably negate having to keep an eye on it.
The Federal German Border Guards Group 9 (GSG 9) has been using the SG 551 for over 20 years to good effect. They praise the weapon and have operated in Afganistan and numerous other stressful areas during that time.
When one takes the Colt M4 apart and then the SG551 and compares the size of the bolt lugs among other things there leaves a lot to be desired in the M4. I love AR 15's and the M16's / C7 that I have been issued, just not as much as the Swiss Arms I have or have currently been issued. I just think they are built better and I have had much better reliability as well (I have to admit that my C7 never jamed in 2 years when using live ammo, just blanks).
Rich
I'm well aware of the old post, as you can see I posted numerous times in the same thread. As I stated before when you loose the roll pin in the SG552 bolt carrier and don't check it the piston can rotate around. This causes it to loose contact with the rear of the bolt carrier and possibly break the bolt carrier in extreame circumstances.
Proper checks, cleaning and maintenace to prevent it, as with all weapons.
Having said that the SG553 will probably negate having to keep an eye on it.
The Federal German Border Guards Group 9 (GSG 9) has been using the SG 551 for over 20 years to good effect. They praise the weapon and have operated in Afganistan and numerous other stressful areas during that time.
When one takes the Colt M4 apart and then the SG551 and compares the size of the bolt lugs among other things there leaves a lot to be desired in the M4. I love AR 15's and the M16's / C7 that I have been issued, just not as much as the Swiss Arms I have or have currently been issued. I just think they are built better and I have had much better reliability as well (I have to admit that my C7 never jamed in 2 years when using live ammo, just blanks).
Rich
- Location
- Port Perry/Toronto
I believe they are making the 553 because of the problems with duty 552's. I forget what it is, but their is something that's different (I think it has something to do with the bolt) with the 552's than with the 550's and the 551's.
I just spoke with IWI.
All future Tavors shipped will have new bolts to accommodate an upgraded firing pin with a spring to allow use with soft primered cartridges.
These will be ready in 3 months.
No further Tavors will ship until they upgrade. (from us or IWI)
Those who have already received their Tavor will received the upgrade.
Thank you for your patience. This is one of those things that appear when you put a military gun in civie hands.
All future Tavors shipped will have new bolts to accommodate an upgraded firing pin with a spring to allow use with soft primered cartridges.
These will be ready in 3 months.
No further Tavors will ship until they upgrade. (from us or IWI)
Those who have already received their Tavor will received the upgrade.
Thank you for your patience. This is one of those things that appear when you put a military gun in civie hands.
Clobbersauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Waaay out west.
Wow - that is excellent service from both CanAm and IWI. Good show!
Some guy in the US is going to jail for 30 months because he lent his AR to a neighbor and it slam fired at the range.They charged him with illegal transfer of a machine gun.Its causing a big ruckus the way the court interpetted what constitutes a machine gun.
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