TAVOR vs Bushmaster ACR
- Thread starter Exidous
- Start date
I have the ACR with multiple calibers, none being 223 which I believe is the largest appeal for a NR rifle (hunting big game). It is very accurate even with factory ammo, my 450 is under 1MOA with the factory trigger and all other components.
Tavor sold as I already have NR 223 rifles and it really filled no gap other than being compact. Accuracy was poor with factory ammo, 4MOA average with the odd 2MOA group. Trigger is a must to replace imo unlike the RFB
Tavor sold as I already have NR 223 rifles and it really filled no gap other than being compact. Accuracy was poor with factory ammo, 4MOA average with the odd 2MOA group. Trigger is a must to replace imo unlike the RFB
From an accuracy standpoint........
This is what my ACR (18.5" .223 converted by Herron Arms with Bartlein barrel) is capable of doing. Each square is an inch. Target shot at 100 yards. Stock trigger. I`m not that great a shot by the way....
My buddy with his Tavor, even with a converted trigger......remains about 2 MOA or above. Tavor is a very interesting rifle none-the-less. Very very fun to shoot!
You can`t lose with either rifle......
This is what my ACR (18.5" .223 converted by Herron Arms with Bartlein barrel) is capable of doing. Each square is an inch. Target shot at 100 yards. Stock trigger. I`m not that great a shot by the way....
My buddy with his Tavor, even with a converted trigger......remains about 2 MOA or above. Tavor is a very interesting rifle none-the-less. Very very fun to shoot!
You can`t lose with either rifle......
What you outline is pretty poor accuracy which makes me wonder how this platform was chosen for the Israeli Defense Forces who have been using it for some years. One would think if the accuracy was terrible they would have opted for something better.
military service rifles do not require the type of accuracy for adoption that us sport shooters are seeking.
We also have a civilian version and using ammo we have on hand, I do not know what their military issued ammo is quality wise. I produced 1moa 3 round groups with my RFB and factory loaded ammo so I don't think it was just me and bulpups not working together. Others who I know that still have them are not getting much better than a consistent 2moa with handloads
I own a non restricted ACR with a stainless 223 barrel, stainless custom built 300BLK conversion and 6.8SPC conversion that is almost finished but I lost interest when I finished building my 300BLK conversion. I used to own a Tavor.
The Tavor was a nice rifle and I really didn't have any problems with it other than the odd failure to... something, can't remember if it failed to feed or eject once in a while. Either way it wasn't very often and the rifle is gone now.
I'm not sure why I didn't really like the Tavor, to me it just didn't do anything that I couldn't do with something else I already owned and I never got the smile on my face I got when shoting my ACR.
I think the only area the Tavor was better than the ACR was it's short length which did make for a little better offhand shooting. I don't find the ACR to be too heavy though so when I shoot unsupported I can still ring gongs at 100 yards and that's good enough for me.
The worst thing about the Tavor is the trigger. At least it was fairly consistent but wow was it heavy. My trigger pull scale couldn't read high enough until I removed the trigger reset spring which brought the pull down to 9 pounds. This actually isn't a terrible thing as long as you only shoot the Tavor and you get used to it. The problem comes when you switch back and forth with a rifle that has a decent trigger.
The rifle ergonomics are the same way. If you only shoot the Tavor and train with it you will get used to the bolt and mag release and your reloads will get faster but if you switch back and forth with an AR or and ACR you will always have trouble with the Tavor as your mind instinctively goes for the controls where they "should" be.
The Tavor accuracy is acceptable by military standards but for me I want more and the ACR delivers in that area. The Tavor is fine for ringing gongs out to 400-500 yards but if you want to make some groups you're going to be disappointed. My ACR has printed numerous sub moa groups with my 300BLK conversion and while my 223 conversion shoots well I can't say exactly how well because I did some trades and ended up with a different barrel and haven't done much testing with it yet.
It really comes down to what you want to do with it. If you like target shooting and prefer a conventional rifle layout then the ACR is your choice. If you just want to have some fun and want something compact then the Tavor is for you. I would definitely suggest you find a way to shoot a Tavor before dropping $2700-$3000 on one. They aren't for everyone and they're definitely not for me.
As a side note, I'm not biased against bullpups. I used to own an RFB and liked it and I still own a DTA SRS in 338 Lapua and it's one of my favorites. I don't know what it is but the Tavor just doesn't do it for me.
The Tavor was a nice rifle and I really didn't have any problems with it other than the odd failure to... something, can't remember if it failed to feed or eject once in a while. Either way it wasn't very often and the rifle is gone now.
I'm not sure why I didn't really like the Tavor, to me it just didn't do anything that I couldn't do with something else I already owned and I never got the smile on my face I got when shoting my ACR.
I think the only area the Tavor was better than the ACR was it's short length which did make for a little better offhand shooting. I don't find the ACR to be too heavy though so when I shoot unsupported I can still ring gongs at 100 yards and that's good enough for me.
The worst thing about the Tavor is the trigger. At least it was fairly consistent but wow was it heavy. My trigger pull scale couldn't read high enough until I removed the trigger reset spring which brought the pull down to 9 pounds. This actually isn't a terrible thing as long as you only shoot the Tavor and you get used to it. The problem comes when you switch back and forth with a rifle that has a decent trigger.
The rifle ergonomics are the same way. If you only shoot the Tavor and train with it you will get used to the bolt and mag release and your reloads will get faster but if you switch back and forth with an AR or and ACR you will always have trouble with the Tavor as your mind instinctively goes for the controls where they "should" be.
The Tavor accuracy is acceptable by military standards but for me I want more and the ACR delivers in that area. The Tavor is fine for ringing gongs out to 400-500 yards but if you want to make some groups you're going to be disappointed. My ACR has printed numerous sub moa groups with my 300BLK conversion and while my 223 conversion shoots well I can't say exactly how well because I did some trades and ended up with a different barrel and haven't done much testing with it yet.
It really comes down to what you want to do with it. If you like target shooting and prefer a conventional rifle layout then the ACR is your choice. If you just want to have some fun and want something compact then the Tavor is for you. I would definitely suggest you find a way to shoot a Tavor before dropping $2700-$3000 on one. They aren't for everyone and they're definitely not for me.
As a side note, I'm not biased against bullpups. I used to own an RFB and liked it and I still own a DTA SRS in 338 Lapua and it's one of my favorites. I don't know what it is but the Tavor just doesn't do it for me.
do you own both?
cause I do
if you want to do bench shooting get the acr
if you want to stand up and shoot get the tavor
CobraGT approves of and seconds this message! (and yes, I also own both.)
rommelrommel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Is "###" the best descriptor you could come up with?
I thought ### meant happy? Did he mean something else or does he actually approve of the Tavor?
Op, You could always just buy a used Tavor then realize after a month that it's meh, then sell it for what you paid for it and buy an ACR with the money and be happy.
One negative that I noticed with the Tavor was that when you put a brake on it it's very very loud. With a linear or just a regular flash hider it's not too bad but a brake on it gave me a headache and it wasn't an enjoyable shooting experience. The good thing is that it's only a 223 and it's a heavy enough rifle that it really doesn't need a brake and it's still very controllable without one.
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onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I agree with mike for the most part, but I honestly prefer the ACR the more I shoot it. Just bought the ACR some unicorn parts last night, can't wait to show em off!
The ACR handles fine even being the polar oposite for weight distribution of the Tavor. While the ACR is slower in snap shooting, the forward weight of the ACR steadies your aim for distance shooting while standing or kneeling with wind pushing your sights around.
If you are careful about your choices of handgaurds and barrels for NR length. Puting any accessories forward of the magwell will damage your chances of being happy with the weight balance. Only things forward of the magwell on mine are the ACR MOE polymer handgaurd, Surefire Scout 600u on a Magpul MOE scout light mount, Surefire SR-07 rail switch, and a Troy folding battle sight. This makes a very manageable weight.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Not crap when you use it, and makes zero differnce in balance. I did notice there was a substantial change in balance when I traded the 600u out for a 952v in an offset mount and Tango down vert grip. Made it feel like I tied a cinderblock to the muzzle brake.
