Tavor VS Type 97??

We see so few of the high end Chinese products with their original brands on them that it's very hard to tell. Most of the brands that we see as "good quality" are Chinese products built to US spec and branded by the importer (cell phones, laptops, TVs). Dell for example, does not to my knowledge and has not ever made a laptop (for many years they were Scepter). The mass market Chinese produced products that we identify as "Chinese" are built to the price point of the importer, which is, all too often Wal mart. As far as the Type 97 goes, I'm sure the rifle is at least as good as the SA80, and probably more reliable. The rifle will be built to suit the PLA though, and despite efforts to reduce the size and increase the sophistication of the PLA, it's still a little rough around the edges and I'm guessing the T97 reflects that. I'm more likely to find that out at $1,000 than I am with the Tavor at $3000
 
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I had a Tavor and more than one 97 but I did not shoot them side by side.
But in my opinion they shoot different tho.


This was shot this with my Type 97 in a friendly competition a month ago.
My rifle: Benchrested, Zeiss scope.
Distance: 109 meters.
Each group is 10-shot. The squares in the grid of the paper are 1" x 1".
Shooter: Lector (not drunk). He used his own ammo.

Between group 6 and 7 he took a break.
He went to smoke his lungs, drink coffee and bully some of his friends on another range.
So it was enough time for the barrel to cool down before groups 7, 8 and 9.


T97avZZ-1.jpg
 
22Short_Improved said:
I had a Tavor and more than one 97 but I did not shoot them side by side.
But in my opinion they shoot different tho.


This was shot this with my Type 97 in a friendly competition a month ago.
My rifle: Benchrested, Zeiss scope.
Distance: 109 meters.
Each group is 10-shot. The squares in the grid of the paper are 1" x 1".
Shooter: Lector (not drunk). He used his own ammo.

Between group 6 and 7 he took a break.
He went to smoke his lungs, drink coffee and bully some of his friends on another range.
So it was enough time for the barrel to cool down before groups 7, 8 and 9.
Click to expand...

Those are some great groups....HARD to believe they came from a mass produced Chinese assault rifle.

I am somewhat skeptical....if they indeed did...I would buy a 97 in a heartbeat.
 
michaelsabre said:
10 shot group like that!!!!!! wow!!!!!!!!Who needs a T88 sniper?

BTW, What kind of mount did you put on T97?
Click to expand...
When he is not goofing around, Lector can shoot good. I have shot groups like that using my T97 and his ammo, but I could never make a whole paper without ####-ups. In his good days, he can fill paper after paper after paper like that, if he has his cigarettes and coffee:D He does have the occasional flyer though, but not as often as I do. He is very dependent, I can say addicted to high optics. In their contests, both he and his friend use the same gun and the difference between their average groups is within .060" usually. He does not like my other T97's I had, I don't know why.


The whole gun has very little mods. A little of trigger job and barrel re-crown. The scope mount was made in a machine shop in Vanc after lector's drawings and I sold it together with the gun almost a week ago. It was my last 97. Now I have only the 88 and I plan to keep it.:)
Now only if I can convince him to make my T88 shoot like that :D
 
22Short_Improved
You are sending the wrong message
to this board about me, your rifle, the ammo used,
the type of shooting and the conditions.
Not that I care too much, BUT I will be back in here
with some details about that shooting,
so we’ll set the record straight.
That target, or other similar to it,
is not exactly what I am about
(I have my days, yeah... but...)
or about what every-day/every-97 can shoot.
As I said, I will be back with details
when I'll have time.
Regards
 
22Short_Improved said:
I had a Tavor and more than one 97 but I did not shoot them side by side.
But in my opinion they shoot different tho.


This was shot this with my Type 97 in a friendly competition a month ago.
My rifle: Benchrested, Zeiss scope.
Distance: 109 meters.
Each group is 10-shot. The squares in the grid of the paper are 1" x 1".
Shooter: Lector (not drunk). He used his own ammo.

Between group 6 and 7 he took a break.
He went to smoke his lungs, drink coffee and bully some of his friends on another range.
So it was enough time for the barrel to cool down before groups 7, 8 and 9.


T97avZZ-1.jpg
Click to expand...


Thats awsome groups for chinese mass produced assault rifle, thats swiss arms like shooting.

Your a freakin sniper :sniper:
 
I see groups opened up after smoke and coffee. I always thought coffee ruins my groups same as sugar and generaly full stumack.

Seriously - great shooting. For semiauto mass produced military rifle is just unbelivabl. Yea, I know, a little bit of muzzle re-crown, little cheapo Zeiss scope, lousy handloads...
 
I am pretty impressed by the accuracy. I will get one for fun definitely even though the manual of arms is kinda screwed up.
 
michaelsabre said:
I am doing business with China, their advantage/disadvantage is their supplier chain.

The quad, for example, can be done in this way:

1, Go to buy a quad from Honda

2, take it apart.

3, send parts to different suppliers

4, Put parts from suppliers together.

5, Ship to Canada.
Click to expand...

From that I read that the Chinese advantage is a lack of rule of law and no moral or legal issues with patent infringement, rather than great supply supplier chain.

+Somewhere a "Communist" makes $ that should have gone to the company in a free and democratic country that spent the time and money to design the parts in the first place.
 
dangertree said:
From that I read that the Chinese advantage is a lack of rule of law and no moral or legal issues with patent infringement, rather than great supply supplier chain.

+Somewhere a "Communist" makes $ that should have gone to the company in a free and democratic country that spent the time and money to design the parts in the first place.
Click to expand...

Never mind
 
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If 22short said that lector and his rifle did this I believe him. He doesn't BS. I have a couple question if you don't mind.

Why was the barrel re-crowned? Was there a defect or was it done to improve on the factory crown?

Which rifle did you prefer, the Tavor or the 97?

thanks in advance...
 
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Clobbersauras said:
Why was the barrel re-crowned? Was there a defect or was it done to improve on the factory crown?

Which rifle did you prefer, the Tavor or the 97?

thanks in advance...
Click to expand...
I did not see any defect on the crown. It was done because Lector wanted it, like a preventative measure. Before the mods, the 97 was doing about 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" at 100m at the very best. That was with reloads and a 12 X scope.
I am sorry, but I can't compare it with the Tavor b/c I didn't shoot them side by side. Now I regret I didn't do it before I sold them :( Anyway I put only a very limited number of rounds thru the Tavor insufficient to form an opinion. And that would not be a very relevant opinion anyway b/c my Tavor had few differences if compared with the ones brought by Canam, the most important were the trigger pull, the mount for optics and some other things. I had to sell because of some changes in my family situation and I could keep only very few guns. I hope I will not regret what I chose to sell.
 
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22Short_Improved said:
I did not see any defect on the crown. It was done because Lector wanted it, like a preventative measure. Before the mods, the 97 was doing about 2-1/4" to 2-1/2" at 100m at the very best. That was with reloads and a 12 X scope.
I am sorry, but I can't compare it with the Tavor b/c I didn't shoot them side by side. Now I regret I didn't do it before I sold them :( Anyway I put only a very limited number of rounds thru the Tavor insufficient to form an opinion. And that would not be a very relevant opinion anyway b/c my Tavor had few differences if compared with the ones brought by Canam, the most important were the trigger pull, the mount for optics and some other things. I had to sell because of some changes in my family situation and I could keep only very few guns. I hope I will not regret what I chose to sell.
Click to expand...

O.K...

This sounds a little better...

I was almost crapping in my pants thinking a Chinese mass produced assault rifle would shoot tight groups like that out of the box.

Still 2" groups from factory rifle is pretty decent.

When they come out with Non_restricted I will probably buy one...if it is in 7.62x39.
 
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