The 38/44 Heavy Duty

[josquin]

I just caame across this post on the predecessor to the .357 Magnum on The S&W Forum by a fellow In Kansas and thought it might be of interest here.

I have put together a guide that covers the major ammo companies and their products from 1930-1965, the time period that the HD was manufactured

THE SMITH & WESSON 38/44 HEAVY DUTY

The first 38/44 Heavy Duty was shipped from Smith & Wesson on 2 April 1930. This model was built in response to law enforcement's requirement for an arm that would shoot a high speed round which could penetrate car bodies and bullet proof vests. The collaboration between Smith & Wesson, Remington and Elmer Keith produced the 38/44 S&W cartridge which could launch a 158 grain bullet at 1175 fps and producing 460 foot pounds of energy. This round would penetrate 11ea 7/8inch thick boards and would go thru the trunk of a car, seats, dash and into the engine area. The factory first offered this gun in a 5 inch barrel, blue or nickel finish and service stocks. Some special orders were received early in production for the pistol with adjustable sights which was the precursor of the 38/44 Outdoorsman which would first appear in 1931. The 38/44 Heavy Duty was the father of the .357 Registered Magnum which appeared in 1935. I am always interested in acquiring collectable 38/44 Heavy Duties. Send me any Heavy Duty questions you have and I'll answer them if possible. Please contact me at heavyduty3844@yahoo.com

S&WCA Life Member 600

https://38-44heavyduty.com/

From his "5 inch Pre-war Heavy Duty" page:

This Heavy Duty was shipped to Marshall Wells Co., Vancouver, BC for the British Columbia Police on 25 October 1940. There were a total of 50 guns in the shipment. All were configured with 5 inch barrels, blue finish, checkered Magna grips and butt swivel.

I remember seeing a few of these at the Chilliack gun show a few years ago. Wish I'd had $1,200 on me.

 

[Brutus]

IIRC a total of 100 HDs were shipped to Canada specifically for the BCPP. Last shipment was about 1940ish pre-WW2.

Wasn't long after the wartime demand for k-frame 38s for allied governments pushed aside the HD, Outdoorsmen and Registered Magnums.

 

[josquin]

IIRC a total of 100 HDs were shipped to Canada specifically for the BCPP. Last shipment was about 1940ish pre-WW2.

I'd never heard of these (or the BC Police) until I saw them at the Chilliwack show. I think there were 4 or 5 from two different vendors.

 

[Brutus]

I'd never heard of these (or the BC Police) until I saw them at the Chilliwack show. I think there were 4 or 5 from two different vendors.

Some HDs wormed thier way into the RCMP when the BCPP was dissolved. About 1971(?) the RCMP standardized on the S&W Model 10 and some lucky officers had the option to purchase the HD with those funds going back to BC coffers.
Because these HDs were loaned to the RCMP agency.
Something like that.

 

[josquin]

Some HDs wormed thier way into the RCMP when the BCPP was dissolved. About 1971(?) the RCMP standardized on the S&W Model 10 and some lucky officers had the option to purchase the HD with those funds going back to BC coffers.
Because these HDs were loaned to the RCMP agency.
Something like that.

Interestng. I had never heard of the BC Police. I thought the RCMP adpoted the Model 10 in 1955, although I can't remember what it replaced. Possibly a Colt in .455 or .45 Colt?

As to officers being able to buy their HDs, that's a surprise. A local (noiw retired) RCMP officer here in Mission told me he wanted to buy his Model 10 when they went to the 9mm S&W around 1995, but he wasn't allowedt to. I thnk he said he eventually bought a new one. Presumably he had a 12.6 licence as the RCMP Model 10 had an "evil" 4" barrel!

 

[Old Ranger]

When Ontario's Conservation Officers switched to 40's (USP's If I remember correctly) sometime in the 80's Officers could buy their issued Model 10 4" HB for 50 bucks. Hope my memory serves me well!!

 

[calmex]

My 1956 manufactured S&W Heavy Duty is one of the guns I still have waiting for me down in Mexico. The chambers are .38 Special and a .357 Magnum round will not enter the chamber fully and allow the cylinder to close. Be that as it may, the revolver (mine is a 4 inch) is obviously the precurser to the Model 28 Highway Patrolman albeit with fixed sights.

My Heavy Duty sitting on my desk in the Ice Cream Store I ran for nearly a quarter-century in San Miguel de Allende. Sometimes I took my H.D. to work. Not because I legally could, but because I wanted to.

In Mexico, the .38 Special is the most powerful revolver cartridge permitted for civilian ownership. That being said, there are a lot of .357 Magnum revolvers that get professionally remarked as .38 Specials (and we fit them out with .38 Special only cylinders for the registration process only) that get registered. Issue load is the Elmer Keith load of a 170 grain Lyman 358429 over 13.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case with a standard small pistol primer. Velocity from a 4 inch Heavy Duty or Model 19 is 1300 to 1320 fps. Out of a 6 inch Model 28 it's about 1350 and nicely takes bowling pins off the table. From an 8 inch Python or Model 27 it's over 1400 fps. From a 2.5 inch Model 19 it's a hokey dokey 1150 to 1180 fps. Ejection is smooth (one-thumb ejection) and the power is about as much as you'd need.

My Heavy Duty at the top, a friend's Model 40, my son's Model 10-5 and my Model 49. The Model 49 and the Heavy Duty are still my guns because -- along with several others -- I did not sell them when I left.

The Heavy Duty is one of my favorite handguns, and I would not have kept it if it wasn't. Completely "Mexican legal" as it's a .38 from the get-go, it offers .357 performance without the risks of using a remarked .357 -- which are minimal, to be sure, but still there. I use my Heavy Duty in the "Service Gun" category when we shoot the Mexican PPC events because it has a bang-on point-of-impact with the 160 grain and 170 grain LSWC loads we use in either .38 Special or .38 Heavy Duty loadings so I don't need to guesstimate where to aim.

The Heavy Duty on Bowling Pins, 3 feet from the back end of the table, range 10 yards using the Elmer Keith load.

 

[josquin]

When Ontario's Conservation Officers switched to 40's (USP's If I remember correctly) sometime in the 80's Officers could buy their issued Model 10 4" HB for 50 bucks. Hope my memory serves me well!!

Ah, yes....before the "social re-engineering" horsepuckey of Bill C-68

re calmex: The drool factor is high on your post!

 

[Brutus]

My 1956 manufactured S&W Heavy Duty is one of the guns I still have waiting for me down in Mexico. The chambers are .38 Special and a .357 Magnum round will not enter the chamber fully and allow the cylinder to close. Be that as it may, the revolver (mine is a 4 inch) is obviously the precurser to the Model 28 Highway Patrolman albeit with fixed sights.

My Heavy Duty sitting on my desk in the Ice Cream Store I ran for nearly a quarter-century in San Miguel de Allende. Sometimes I took my H.D. to work. Not because I legally could, but because I wanted to.

In Mexico, the .38 Special is the most powerful revolver cartridge permitted for civilian ownership. That being said, there are a lot of .357 Magnum revolvers that get professionally remarked as .38 Specials (and we fit them out with .38 Special only cylinders for the registration process only) that get registered. Issue load is the Elmer Keith load of a 170 grain Lyman 358429 over 13.5 grains of 2400 in a .38 Special case with a standard small pistol primer. Velocity from a 4 inch Heavy Duty or Model 19 is 1300 to 1320 fps. Out of a 6 inch Model 28 it's about 1350 and nicely takes bowling pins off the table. From an 8 inch Python or Model 27 it's over 1400 fps. From a 2.5 inch Model 19 it's a hokey dokey 1150 to 1180 fps. Ejection is smooth (one-thumb ejection) and the power is about as much as you'd need.

My Heavy Duty at the top, a friend's Model 40, my son's Model 10-5 and my Model 49. The Model 49 and the Heavy Duty are still my guns because -- along with several others -- I did not sell them when I left.

The Heavy Duty is one of my favorite handguns, and I would not have kept it if it wasn't. Completely "Mexican legal" as it's a .38 from the get-go, it offers .357 performance without the risks of using a remarked .357 -- which are minimal, to be sure, but still there. I use my Heavy Duty in the "Service Gun" category when we shoot the Mexican PPC events because it has a bang-on point-of-impact with the 160 grain and 170 grain LSWC loads we use in either .38 Special or .38 Heavy Duty loadings so I don't need to guesstimate where to aim.

The Heavy Duty on Bowling Pins, 3 feet from the back end of the table, range 10 yards using the Elmer Keith load.

Self defense with some of the most reasonable tools ever built by modern man in North America.

Thank you sir....

Edit: I find it interesting Mexico in a permanent state of 1977ish. Telephone booths, gravel roads and junkyard dogs.

 

[calmex]

re calmex: The drool factor is high on your post!

A friend of mine down there is holding on to a couple of different Heavy Duty revolvers for another friend who is "sailing around the world" and perhaps wants to part with them. Or perhaps not. One is a minty 4 inch Pre-war and the other is a pretty nice 6.5 incher Post-war. It's funny, but quite a few of the Mexican shooting crowd have a Heavy Duty, as they are sought after revolvers once we figured out that the Elmer Keith load worked 100% for our needs and didn't seem to strain the materials. And most of the Heavy Duty revolvers that are "known" in our shooting circles are actually 5 inch models.

I got mine in about 2005 for 5,500.00 pesos (about 355.00 Cdn. now, but it was about 610.00 or 620.00 dollars Cdn. back then). Although the finish is worn, it locks up tight and it's a decisive thumper to have in hand when answering the door late at night.

For some additional drool, right now my Heavy Duty rests in a friend's safe in San Miguel, beside the Phil Roettinger Non-Reg. Mag, the 2nd last .357 to leave the S&W plant in 1942 before production stopped -- which I own now since Phil died in 2001.

 

[calmex]

Edit: I find it interesting Mexico in a permanent state of 1977ish. Telephone booths, gravel roads and junkyard dogs.

Yes, Mexico seems backwards sometimes but it's more like "back in time". The 1973 "Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos" sort of froze the Mexican gun world into 1973. There are some work-arounds, but there's lots of 1960's-70's era stuff laying around unregistered that is ripe for the picking by unscrupulous San Miguel/Queretero gunclub members. And every other gunclub as well.

Mexico changes slowly. And I'm a bit of a traditional sort, so I like that.

 

[dan belisle]

Was given an HD as a gift from an old friend years ago. Also have the 6.5 inch Outdoorsman version with the adjustable sights. Nice revolvers. - dan

 

[New Camper]

Interesting, I understood that the 357/44mag (a necked down 44mag) was to make up for the shortcoming between the hype with the 357mag and actual performance. I think it was called the 357/44 or 44-357 Bain and Davis. This is obviously a different round being a 38 (.357") stuffed into a necked down 44special or Russian case. Keith got at S&W and Remington for the 44mag and it came about in the 1950s... clearly much later as the wildcat can't exist first without the parent.

Something learned today.

 

[dan belisle]

Interesting, I understood that the 357/44mag (a necked down 44mag) was to make up for the shortcoming between the hype with the 357mag and actual performance. I think it was called the 357/44 or 44-357 Bain and Davis. This is obviously a different round being a 38 (.357") stuffed into a necked down 44special or Russian case. Keith got at S&W and Remington for the 44mag and it came about in the 1950s... clearly much later as the wildcat can't exist first without the parent.

Something learned today.

38-44 is simply a 38 Special loaded to higher pressures/speed. - dan

 

[piperdown]

What a great thread! I'm a huge fan of the fixed sight .38's and the Heavy Duty is at the top of my list. I've managed to acquire 2 and am always on the lookout for them, especially the 4" example that I still need to find.

The top one is a pre war BCP issue revolver, grips number to the gun, in fantastic condition.

Bottom is a post war transitional version, they only made about 2500 between 1946 and 1949 iirc. It's an excellent shooter.

 

[polkey]

There's a nice BCP issued one thats been in the EE for 6-7 months now.

 

[piperdown]

Ya I've been watching that one, it's in great condition. Not moving at that price though. Estate sale I believe.

 

[Leg]

Some nice revolvers in this thread. I’ve read that the Colt Official Police could also handle .38-44 factory loads. I have an old Colt Army Special and wonder if it could handle it?

Not Elmer Keith loads, I wouldn’t dare.

 

[calmex]

Some nice revolvers in this thread. I’ve read that the Colt Official Police could also handle .38-44 factory loads. I have an old Colt Army Special and wonder if it could handle it?

Not Elmer Keith loads, I wouldn’t dare.

In San Miguel de Allende, I have a book that lists models of Colt that could handle the .38-44 factory loads and I think some specific serial number ranges of the Army Special were on the list. However, that book is in Mexico and until I get back down there in February, it might as well be on the backside of the moon. I will try to remember to check that book when I'm down there in February and if somebody else hasn't come up with the answer by then maybe it will help.

 

[dan belisle]

Some nice revolvers in this thread. I’ve read that the Colt Official Police could also handle .38-44 factory loads. I have an old Colt Army Special and wonder if it could handle it?

Not Elmer Keith loads, I wouldn’t dare.

Depends how old it is. As Calmex states, later ones were rated for it (they're really just a early version of a +P load after all). I don't think I'll risk it in my pre war revolvers though. - dan