The 450 Ruger Improved Lives.............

c-fbmi

c-fbmi

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Well I got off my a$$ and set up some temp lighting in my gun shop and chambered up my 450 Ruger yesterday. It was raining and a perfect day to play. Had to fix my action wrench and couldn't find the right bushings for this barrel for my barrel vice but I did manage to get it together and fireformed some cases last evening. They came out with a nice shoulder and expanded good enough to load for real now.

I picked up 500 X 416 Rem brass a while back so I have been working with them to make cases for right now. I ran them over my 44 expander first and then up into a 458 Lott sizer die and then over the 458 expander and gave them a slight bell after trimming to length. This slight bell and .020" longer cases gives me the ability to head space on the case mouth and it works well. Nice and snug on the turn down of the bolt and no case stretching, in fact cases come out .025" shorter that they entered the chamber........PERFECT. The brass is all nickel plated but isn't cracking or flaking yet, even after the significant expanding process so we'll have to see how it stands up to the rigors of load testing.

I loaded up some 560 gn cast bullets I had laying around with a load for the 45-110 sharps, 55 gns of H4198 and went out into the pasture and touched them off, it booted me pretty good and formed the cases nicely. The necks came out perfect and a bullet slides into a fired case with about .002" clearance. Couldn't ask for better, thought the body brass of the 416 might end up a little thick in the neck area, but they came out good to go.

Today I'll set up and make loading dies for it using a second set of 458 WM dies I have. It is still raining so no chronographing today (I haven't built my shooting/chronographing house yet.....another project that's on the list), but I'll make up some loads for testing today. I'll start with bottom end 458 Lott data and see where it goes from there, I haven't checked case capacity yet but I will before I load up test loads.

I noticed when I put the rifle back in the stock, that it had never been bedded so I think I best do that before going much further with this cartridge or I'll be looking for a new stock. This started life as a Remington Custom Shop 458 with a decent stock so I don't really want to turn it into firewood.

Here's a pic of the rifle..........








It'll never be a 460 RUM (or Guns & Ammo long) but it should equal the Lott in a standard length action...........I guess we'll see.............Anyway one looks at it, it'll be a big improvement on the 458 WM.
 
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Very nice, Douglas!

And a clean looking rifle as well... but for sure, get on with the bedding.

Why the designation .450 "Ruger," given that you are using .416 Rem brass in a Remington rifle? I will also be interested in the results of headspacing on the case mouth on the second and third firing of a case... or are you planning to reprep for each loading?
 
Hoyt..........you missed what I did here and hence the name. I had a reamer made using the 416 Ruger necked out to 458 and the shoulder improved to 40 degrees. Thus on the first firing, using the 416 Rem brass, I have no shoulder upon which to headspace, but with subsequent firings I will be using the small 40 degree shoulder. More or less what I did with 300 WM fire forming them out to 375 Ruger, but with no shoulder to initially headspace on, I decided to use the case mouth jammed up against the forward cut of the chamber neck. The whole point is to get the increased powder capacity of the Ruger case without going to the case length of the Lott, and without giving up magazine capacity by going to the 404 case.
I'll post some photos later (when I find my camera again), like they say a picture is worth a thousand words..........it is very obvious what I am doing once you see the fireformed brass.
Too be honest I kinda screwed up and cheated at the same time, with this chamber I cut it a little deep (slight miscalculation) and ended up with an overall case length of 2.70. This is completely irrelevant to me because I'm using full length cases to form my cases from, but it means one could not fireform 416 Ruger cases to work. I'm going to see what this cartridge does and then I may take the barrel off and set it back a couple of threads and proceed with the original plan. Of course in the Remington magazine, there is plenty of room for this cartridge, but it still kinda defeats what I had originally planned to try.
 
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Then it's a blown-out .416 Ruger case to .458 with a shorter neck and sharper shoulder. Since you are using .416 Rem. Mag. cases do you remove the belt?

416%20cal%20projectiles_zpsk9cburqn.jpg
 
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c-fbmi said:
Hoyt..........you missed what I did here and hence the name. I had a reamer made using the 416 Ruger necked out to 458 and the shoulder improved to 40 degrees. Thus on the first firing,
Click to expand...

I missed the part where your reamer was a necked up .416 Ruger...
 
I do not remove the belt, as the fireforming blows the brass out to match the dia of the belt and the belt keeps the case centered in the chamber for fireforming. The original intent was not to shorten the 416 neck nor move the shoulder forward, so one could fireform 416 Ruger cases to make brass. I just f**ked up when chambering on this rifle and ended up a little long. As I said I may cut it back and redo it after I see what this cartridge will do............maybe I'll fall in love with it and keep it the way it is and find another 458 to try the original experiment with. Or maybe I'll cut it back try the original intended case and then lengthen out again after. Possibilities are endless when you are retired with your own lathe............:d:d;);)
 
An innovative design! I like the 40+ calibers, especially my .458 Lott Sako AV.

I have a brush-bucking Moose-stomping load for my .458 Lott using .458 WM rounds - a 500gr bullet at 1850 fps MV using a compressed charge of Re19 (and happens to shoot to zero at 100 yards with the scope set at +3" with the 350gr load at 2500 fps MV :)).

458LOTT-458WinMag_zpssbid4dmd.jpg


458LOTT_e_zpswleoynsm.jpg

Sako AV .458 Lott with Leupold VX-2 1-4x20mm scope
 
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Wouldn't the brass moving out to match the diameter of the belt weaken it at the junction of the belt and newly expanded brass?
 
1899.......I was concerned with that when I did the 300 WM to 375 Ruger experiment but it did not prove out. We fired the same case 7 times with max+ loads and then sectioned the case, there was no evidence of fracturing at the belt/body line at all and the belt was almost totally assimilated into the case body.

Here's a pic of the sectioned case that was fired 7 times.



First one is a touch out of focus.



Anyway as you can see no thinning or fracture lines, came out better than expected.
 
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Okay boys, I found a camera and fireformed some more cases of the proper length. So here's a breakdown of what I'm doing..........




Starting left to right.......factory new R-P nickel plated 416 Rem mag case.......the next two are loaded up for fireforming after a lot of dicking around with multiple sets of dies, the loads are 560 gn cast bullet with 55 gns of H4198 and case has been trimmed to 2.720. The next 3 are what they look like after the loud bang and the last is a dummy made up with 510 gn W-W soft point. These cases shrunk .030" and ended up at 2.69 with a nominal case length of 2.7 for this chamber.
 
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Gatehouse said:
Looking forward to seeing pics of the NEW KING of the .45's :dancingbanana::dancingbanana:

Must be juuuust enough shoulder to headspace on! :)
Click to expand...

That was one of the reasons I went to a 40 degree shoulder, it is still more than a belt............BUT I know it's not solid brass like a belt. It is more than enough in my opinion to withstand the firing pin hit given the circumference of the case.


As far as the title goes Gate, I think the 460 Wby took that one a long time ago...........
 
Cool project Douglas.......

I lack the three T's required to pull anything like this off (Talent, Time and Tender)

I will keep an eye on this thread if for no reason more than i like making big holes in things from a distance......
 
I just did a case capacity comparison and I was surprised............I used Win 748 as a comparison medium, cause I don't like playing in water and around my electronic loading equipment. The fire formed 450 Ruger case held 112.5 gns of 748 and a Lott case held 102.4 grns of 748, that's nearly a 10% increase in capacity over the Lott, which puts it squarely in the 450 Ackley realm. My 450 Ackley from a 26" tube used to get 2550 fps with 500 gn Horn softs and solids................HHHMMMMMMMMMM
Just as a side note it also used to generate 93 ft/lbs of free recoil, it was UGLY.............


I just tried it in the magazine of my Ruger 375 and as I thought, I would have to shorten the case about .050" for the case mouth to line up with the cannelure of these bullets and still fit in the magazine. But even .050" shorter it'll still have about the same or greater capacity than the Lott. With a cartridge like this it is my opinion that if you can't put a good heavy crimp into the cannelure with the case mouth and fit them into the magazine then whole program is worthless. No problem with the Remington, of course, but for the Ruger action a little redesign is in order.
 
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