The Infidel - update w first group

Rick is promoting a new product that he designed, made and built.

No one outside of shop staff really knows anything about this action. But we have read some responses of people who do know.........;)

The truth will be in the puddin. And only time will tell that. Not the internet experts that we have here.

If and when the action fails, then the experts can speak.
 
One of the benefits of living in a free market society is that we have the choice to buy what we want and where we want.

ATRS has put forth the effort into making what they believe is a great product. It doesn`t mean anyone has to believe it. There are alot of actions out there that the people who developed them believe are a great product, just as there are people who don`t. Regardless of wether it is Accuracy Int`l, Sako, Nesika, BAT, Borden, Prairie Gun Works, Stiller or what ever. There or those that love them and there are those that hate them. Every action has it's merits that people either like or dislike and it's up to every individual to make an informed decision on what works for them.

I have shot a lot of different actions. There are some things I like and some things I dislike about all of them. The biggest factor I have found is the guy behind the wheel. I've seen guys complain about how this rifle or that rifle just won't shoot. Guys seem to have this misconception that if they spend X number of dollars the rifle should magically shoot bug hole groups and when they don't they complain about it. Unfortuntely one of the hardest things for guys to do is admit that maybe, just maybe they aren't as good of a shooter as they think and maybe just maybe it is their skill that needs some fine tuning.

All that being said I am happy that ATRS has taken on this endevour. I have seen the end results of their work and am happy with them and the services they provide. Will I buy one of their actions? Maybe in the future when I have some disposable cash to part with and my needs are such that a custom action is in the cards. Now if they had gone with the 3 postion safety that I am so fond of they might be able to persuade me a little easier ;)

In the mean time I will continue to do my research and allow the strong albeit, sometime classless opinions to flow from others.
 
I agree 100% of What Cappy said here, ATR & Spartan obviously have commit enough time and effort into developing there product, it is easy to criticize other effort, how ever it is much harder to product a quality action, and if the price is too high:there is Other choice out there(No one is Putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it) and if the quality is not up to compare to Other Action out there, then peoples will know from result down range.
 
GunBoy said:
I agree 100% of What Cappy said here, ATR & Spartan obviously have commit enough time and effort into developing there product, it is easy to criticize other effort, how ever it is much harder to product a quality action, and if the price is too high:there is Other choice out there(No one is Putting a gun to your head and forcing you to buy it) and if the quality is not up to compare to Other Action out there, then peoples will know from result down range.
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I agree :dancingbanana:
 
I think any of the griping about price is due to the fact that guys WANT to support ATRS, and they WANT to support local, but a like action from USA is a thousand dollars less.... or at least an action perceived to be equivalent (with all do respect ATRS).
Not everyone buys a gun with no limit on what they spend... and in fact I would venture to say not many of the guys so vehemently defending the extra thousand dollars will buy the action...due to price.
 
I know what you mean Waderow.
Just to be clear, and not insult other one here, where is Pro or Con to the Product they produced or price they have set.
 
I talked to Surgeon today. They use forged billet 4340 and could not verify which spec to say it was a vac remelt but he said it was. He did tell me the foundry name and other info, surprisingly forthcoming to say the least. They told me the bolt has more play open than locked up, .006" open radial and .0035" closed. That is a lot of clearance. The single shot action has .002" radial which is .004" total. Their stainless action is 416. They do not have a special QC arrangement such as one dedicated inspector for their actions. He did tell me the dies for the forged billet cost $10000, perhaps that included the dies for the bolt as well. Rc of the 4340 action is 40 and the Rc of the 4140 bolt was 45. I forgot to ask what the bolt handle material was.
 
PEI ROB said:
I talked to Surgeon today. They use forged billet 4340 and could not verify which spec to say it was a vac remelt but he said it was. He did tell me the foundry name and other info, surprisingly forthcoming to say the least. They told me the bolt has more play open than locked up, .006" open radial and .0035" closed. That is a lot of clearance. The single shot action has .002" radial which is .004" total. Their stainless action is 416. They do not have a special QC arrangement such as one dedicated inspector for their actions. He did tell me the dies for the forged billet cost $10000, perhaps that included the dies for the bolt as well. Rc of the 4340 action is 40 and the Rc of the 4140 bolt was 45. I forgot to ask what the bolt handle material was.
Click to expand...



And so what does this mean?

In my limited knowledge, tight tolerances don't mean a thing when the bolt is open. Closed is where it counts.
 
.004" closed is not tight at all IMO. Stiller also uses this figure, so do other makers. It isn't what I, nor many others, would call tight. Rick's Infidel action will no doubt be considerably tighter. In theory, this should be better but this seems to be a magic number that works as good as tighter actions. As mentioned, a Barnard locked up is very tight, so are others but none leap to the top of the leaderboard because of this. I modify my rifles to zero play and do no better than others :D I would have liked my new Stiller Drop Port Cobra to have zero but it doesn't and I am not worried about it nor will I modify it.
 
Until you have one in your hand do the measurement, Theory and reality doesn't mean much, those small amount of movement you describe only play small role is Accuracy of an Action, but big role is reliability, what you need to complete the test and check would be to chamber the top knot barrel and do the test by shooting with it and measure the group size, but this will open up a another different ball game.
 
Well you know, when one starts talking about a new action talk of others will naturally come up with no disrespect intended. I am sure this action will easily match the tolerances of other actions in the world and will be well worth the price. The maker will have a tough time meeting production to keep the world happy and this is a good thing! Great to be making stuff in Canada!
 
We have to see if the maker can Make Canadian happy first!, if the price is Right and the Tolerances match The Other maker!, Only time will tell!.
 
I would like to see a few of these actions put to use in a f-class or other competitions and do some damage against the US gear:nest: If they perform as well as they look and sound I could be convinced of the extra price
 
Quick update for you guys. I stopped by ATRS today and watched as Rick pulled the action from the bedding job in a new McMillan A5 stock, I believe. He slid the bolt in the action and as I worked the bolt back and forth with satifaction, he told me about all of the finer details regarding how they designed the recoil lug system, made this and that different for added strength. I was inpressed. I have 2 new Nesika actions on order and I went ahead and changed my order to his actions.
For a couple reasons actually. I'd have to say the most important reason was because the manufacturer is easy to get ahold of and see personally. He is the one that is 100% responsible for the quality control. He knows exactly what steel is being used in the building of his actions. I'm not sure if anyone on this forum has had the misfortune of dealing with actions that have started to fail or been recalled from a manufacturer from the states but let me just tell everyone, you lose!!! You lose time and money and lots of it. Sending a serialized gun part back to the maker who happens to live in the states is nothing but a losing battle. And when you finally get through to them, you hear nothing but excuses and the guy you're talking to can be appologetic as hell, but it doesn't help the fact that you're without a critical working portion of your custom firearm.
There's zero doubt in my mind that when a certified gunsmith/custom gun builder creats his own action, and his name happens to be Rick Timmins who likes to boast accuracy and have his clients also boast accuracy, he's not cutting any corners on build quality. Just look at the AR lowers he produced. His machinests don't just punch the clock and build bits for the owner. They're guys the truly take pride in their work and their name is going on all of the parts that come out of those machines too. These are guys we want to be building gun parts sold in Canada. You don't have a production manager trying to find ways to cut corners and make larger profit margins. You have the owner of the company and everyone else that works there working as a team to produce the best possible product we can get our hands on and if they don't build it a certain way, ask them why they didn't. I guaranty it doesn't have anything to do with saving money. I can't make it any more clear for the guys on this forum that aren't customers of ATRS. When I can sit down with the machinest that pulled the ATRS actions out of his machine because he drew up the program and compare an Surgeon action to one of their's and ask very pointed question and get knowledgeable answers that make sense, there's no reason not to make the easy choice. I wanted a 30MOA rail on my action because I have an 8-32 Nightforce scope with 65MOA total elevation. Their answer, "No Problem". And I know it will be high enough to clear my 56mm objective because they've already tested it.

I'm not worried in the slightest bit about having 1 of the first actions to come out of his shop because this has been a life's dream and ambition of his and he's taken his time and done it right. I wouldn't support a Canadian manufacturer if I didn't think his product and the service he's providing wasn't top notch. For dollars spent, I want the best and I haven't been dissapointed yet.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how tight everyone thinks they need in an action.
Too tight is no good either. After several shots things heat up and expand in the action and bolt. They are made of different alloys and will bind if too tight as one alloy will expand more or less than the other. There has to be a certain tolerance built in for this. Cannot have both the same metal alloy also or they will gall.
 
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