The old 165gr vs 180gr .30-06 thread...

Demonical said:
It's a standard 22" factory Remington barrel, this rifle was originally an ADL, back in 1980.

The bullets are not seated out, in fact they are seated to a COL of only 3.225" vs .30-06 case spec COL is 3.3400"

If you see above, I have ZERO clue about seating depth. No idea how far they are to the lands, and I don't ever measure for that type stuff. Don't know how, don't want to learn.

I've read so many threads where guys discuss that stuff and to be honest, I don't have enough time, bullets or powder to chase that. Which is kinda also why I never bothered with all that stuff.

I'll get 'acceptable hunting accuracy' with the seating die as is.

I'm not giving up.

Just primed another bunch of new Win brass, then going back to the reloading bench and then the rifle range tomorrow.
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As mentioned, the ogive is what you should be worrying about.

If memory serves, Remington 30-06 chambers are cut with throats deep enough to accept 220 grain, round nose bullets, when they are seated to magazine length.

Coleman gave you some really good advice on how to determine how far your bullets are seated, compared to the dimensions of your chamber.

It's quite easy to do and Coleman shouldn't have assumed you know how to check such things, when he gave such a brief description on how to do it. It was and is still good advice.

Take one of the brass cases, no primer/powder, that have been sized as per normal to you and then use your seating die to insert a bullet into the neck appx half a caliber deep.

Use a sharpie to blacken the bullet all the way past the ogive.

Check to see if this depth of seating will clear your magazine.

It's quite easy to extrapolate how far you are off the lands by counting the number of turns needed on your seating stem, if you don't have a vernier or micrometer.

Example, the seating stem thread will give you .035 inches per turn, up or down.

If you're close enough that you can cam the bolt closed and force the bullet into your case mouth, that will give you your maximum seating depth, just touching the lands.

Eject the cartridge, take it back to your press/seating die and put it into the shell head holder.

Run the cartridge up into the seating die until it stops.

Turn down the seating stem until it touches your bullet at its present position.

KEEP THAT CARTRIDGE FOR A REFERENCE SO THAT YOU CAN BRING YOUR DIE BACK TO THAT POINT AGAIN, IF NEEDED.

Just understand, this example will only be relavent for bullets with the same ogive parameters.

If you then screw down your seating stem ONE TURN, that will seat your bullet .035 inch deeper into the case and appx .035 in from the lands.

If you want more or less it's pretty easy to determine the distance from the lands by how many turns or partial turns you've applied to the seating stem.

Say you want .015 in off the lands, which is a very good place to start, turn in the seating stem 1/2 turn.

It won't be exact, but it will be within a few thou.

If you're very careful, you can adjust that stem to .001inch increments.

It's all much simpler if you have a nut guage and vernier to measure the ogive length with.

A small metal block, with a 3/16 hole drilled into it, for the bullet tip to be inserted to will give you a decent/repeatable reverence point to measure with, to the base of the cartridge for OAL.
 
hmmmm.... somethings weirdish here but these things can happen i hear. some guns are 'slow'.......well their barrels anyway.

what i would be doing, seemingly as we are going thru quite a bit of powder n projies primers etc, i would happily load 54.5gr because...
54.5 sounds good...
its hitting exactly where ya want it too...
it certainly aint banging brass around...
2550 is plenty for 350meters if you are dialling, or with bdc reticle your drops will work out with practise!
it looks cold an i like varget :p
ive never chronod my loads ever so i only guess, if i seen numbers i would proberly be a little weird about not seeing the numbers i was hoping for an thus i would overthink if my rifle is capable after reading 24hcf threads on elk suitable calibres...

if speed was the goal i would trade a arm for a bottle of different powder..

the btsp u use will be adequate for 2500 an possibly down to 2100 fps i rekon for expansion no drama........penetration wasnt a question was it.
 
Demonical said:
It's a standard 22" factory Remington barrel, this rifle was originally an ADL, back in 1980.

The bullets are not seated out, in fact they are seated to a COL of only 3.225" vs .30-06 case spec COL is 3.3400"

If you see above, I have ZERO clue about seating depth. No idea how far they are to the lands, and I don't ever measure for that type stuff. Don't know how, don't want to learn.
.
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Bro you are going to have to, it is so Simple. above poster painted it out easily. Youtube this 13 mins
 
* I watched video, fwiw.


I sure do appreciate the input but what you are talking about would require me to burn way more powder and fire off way more bullets($$) than I care to do.

I'm gonna K.I.S.S. and eliminate one variable, that being chasing some ideal seating depth. I made that decision eons ago (like 25 years ago). For the above reasons.

I do know, doing the simpleton reloading that I do, I am going to achieve acceptable 300 yard hunting accuracy, but I'm never gonna win any bench rest competitions.

But that's not my thing anyway. I'm a hunter that reloads.

For the record I loaded another 5 rounds with 54.5 grs H4350 cuz that load intrigues me.

I'm gonna fire those in the morning and will post my results.


Jim
 
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Demonical said:
* I watched video, fwiw.


I sure do appreciate the input but what you are talking about would require me to burn way more powder and fire off way more bullets($$) than I care to do.

I'm gonna K.I.S.S. and eliminate one variable, that being chasing some ideal seating depth. I made that decision eons ago (like 25 years ago). For the above reasons.

I do know, doing the simpleton reloading that I do, I am going to achieve acceptable 300 yard hunting accuracy, but I'm never gonna win any bench rest competitions.

But that's not my thing anyway. I'm a hunter that reloads.

For the record I loaded another 5 rounds with 54.5 grs H4350 cuz that load intrigues me.

I'm gonna fire those in the morning and will post my results.


Jim
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fair enough, that guy showed a real correct way with all the tools, the simple way is the dummy round an close the bolt trick. sharpie if u like..

im going to take my 3006 for a night out in the tent just up the road to chase a fallow buck! 49gr 2208 & 150 ppsn - im fairly sure i sighted it right the other day, but i will pump one round thru it on a gong an see where it lands before i head off shortly.

il check back in tomorow
 
haha but seriously just by doin that test (dummy round projie in but a LONG way out. close bolt) an coming off say .30 or .50? can often yeild a much tighter group just that alone, without goin .10 .20 .30 .40 etc so on..... 3 rounds 54.5gr seated to fit in magazine but be .30 ? off lands. or 1 full twist in with the Die from max...... worth a try. *edit- this is semi universal particularly if projectile doesnt have cannelure. simply puts the business end in the right end without any issue forth

can u post a photo of your ammo ? loaded plez

fwiw my rounds COAL is 3.200 with 150 woodleighs.
 
Here's pics of my loaded bullets...


That is with the bullet seated out to where the cannelure is exposed. 3.333" COL.


Closer look.


I seated the bullet so the case mouth is right to the front edge of the cannelure, 3.225"
 
Alrighty, here's this mornings shooting.

Another very similar target. 3 shot cluster that a dime would cover, with the hated 2 flyers.

Avg vel was 2571 (it was -4C).

I might be about ready to check out changing my seating depth. Dammit.

 
Keep in mind that I have no idea what I'm doing...


I took a fired case... bullet slides in the neck pretty freely.


Put it in the magazine.


Cycled it in the chamber, bullet was pushed in the neck as you see.


Seated it in a few turns, this is damn near exactly where I had it with 3.333" COL (but I haven't measured it)


And loaded another 5, with a powder bump 1.0 full grain up t0 55.5grs H-4350, 180gr Hornady BTSP.

2 more pics for comparison, what I did this morning vs where I had the bullet seated at 3.333" COL.
Almost identical...



I'm gonna scarf down breakfast then going to fire these... :runaway:
 
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After seating the bullet out further, the COL measured 3.440". (ironic, .30-06 COL spec is supposed to be 3.400").

This 5 shot string avg'd 2641.2fps.

I think from here, my next adjustment is to tighten the seating die down a 1/2 turn, basically some arbitrary amount, but stay at 55.5grs.

Am I correct in assuming that this would bump the velocity slightly, assuming powder stayed the same?

But the breeze has kicked up, and I go back to work for the next 7 days, so thankfully I suppose for you guys, I won't be doing any more shooting for the next week.





My latest 5 shot group, at the longer seating depth, with 55.5grs H-4350.
 
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Holy crap it took some searching to find this!

Most (99%) of the vids guys are using Hornady or other (expensive) gauges, micrometer (expensive) seating dies etc...

It's a very good video demonstrating what Coleman and Bearhunter were talking about, and just what a thrifty(cheap?) guy like me wants!

Even I can understand this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voBUw9BCo88
 
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I’d still recommend purchasing a Hornady comparator set. They are 80$ on Amazon. They work with a standard set of calipers. Measuring oal from the ogive is by far the best way to do it.

You don’t need precise tools to measure exactly where the lands are, you just need an approximate and the ability to produce rounds to a consistent length. Its not like there is a magic distance from the lands that works every time. You find a length that works good in your rifle and stick with that.
 
that Video you posted with old mates dummy round is basically the go bro..... get owwwwnnnnn it! every gun an bullet i have a single loaded dummy with the MAX that bullet can be seated. basically like above.
What this allows is when you change from 180gr BTSP to a 150gr HP? - You already have a dummy round there which you can adjust the seating die readily to Reset- for when you re load 150 or 180s etc...... with ya sharpie write 180btsp on that case / 150 horn on the other case/ etc


You are sometimes right to assume the velocity may rise an its in my opinion that the bullet has less jump to get stuck before it gets pushed.. when its closer to the lands, or touching, the build up is more sudden then pushes the bullet out... my opinion.simple terms.


weatherby run long throats to eliminate or lower "pressures" from over bore cartridges with alot of powder and small hole to push it thru..


do the half turn thing, get the bullet in close/r and report back


I will make a quick video for ya an P M to ya... im bored.
 
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Demonical said:
After seating the bullet out further, the COL measured 3.440". (ironic, .30-06 COL spec is supposed to be 3.400").

This 5 shot string avg'd 2641.2fps.

I think from here, my next adjustment is to tighten the seating die down a 1/2 turn, basically some arbitrary amount, but stay at 55.5grs.

Am I correct in assuming that this would bump the velocity slightly, assuming powder stayed the same?

But the breeze has kicked up, and I go back to work for the next 7 days, so thankfully I suppose for you guys, I won't be doing any more shooting for the next week.





My latest 5 shot group, at the longer seating depth, with 55.5grs H-4350.
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are you measuring to the tip ? or is it just the photo ............. the 3.340 , 3.400 .34123. all of that is Irelevant at this point in time. That number assists the universal loading of breech to chamber from every manufactorer of 30-06......... to fit inside of 99.9% of magazines made for 30-06. etc.

What YOUR gun can wear 3.450? 3.345 3.333 ? you can work out once an for all then that number is indicative of that gun only....

your on right track i rekon with a half turn twist in on die-- maybe even a 1/4 turn man
 
Another tip- Don’t worry about the outside temperature. Your using H4350 which is extremely temperature stable. You aren’t going to see any difference. You’d have to have a massive difference in temperature to effect the velocity.
 
coleman1495 said:
I’d still recommend purchasing a Hornady comparator set. They are 80$ on Amazon. They work with a standard set of calipers. Measuring oal from the ogive is by far the best way to do it.

You don’t need precise tools to measure exactly where the lands are, you just need an approximate and the ability to produce rounds to a consistent length. Its not like there is a magic distance from the lands that works every time. You find a length that works good in your rifle and stick with that.
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YUP ! this here is Great info ! RJ


https://www.hornady.com/reloading/precision-measuring/precision-tools-and-gauges/

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/p...s-and-gauges/lock-n-load-bullet-comparator#!/
 
Demonical said:
Next time you are over in Alberta lets have a beer mate!
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Albertaan ehh...... i'll buy the Beer.... You host the Bear ;) ha haa!!!


fyi, i loaded some 45gr 2208 at that length i showed you in the video... with 'magnum' primers --- i'll let ya know how it goes, i was speakin to a bro about arrow speed an he says he has a Chrono... so il get some ball parks in due time.


btw, Same goes Down Under.... i'd invite ya over to hunt deer but the Govt and Vic Parks are doing their damnest best to get rid of emm all for us in their heliwopter....... FFS.
 
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