With the barreled action in the stock?
The old 165gr vs 180gr .30-06 thread...
- Thread starter Demonical
- Start date
With the barreled action in the stock?
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I am no expert on this tuning stuff - just a comment - measuring computer printer paper here, I get about 0.004" thickness - ought to be similar to your "dollar bill" - I do note in the British stocking up procedure for No. 4 Lee Enfield, that they call for 0.030" of clearance between the barrel and the stock - so leads me to question whether even 0.004" is enough to avoid contact when bullet is coming down the barrel. Is something that I do not know - but I suspect that British Army likely did, at least then??
From an acquaintance - he suggested a number of wraps of electrician's vinyl tape around the barrel to centre that barrel within the barrel channel when epoxy bedding the receiver - the container for the Scotch brand Super 33+ tape that I use says it is .007" thick - so likely a bit thinner if you stretch it when wrapping it on. Seems to work well, for me, to ensure that the receiver bedding does actually result in that barrel in the centre of the forearm channel. I also have some Pasco brand "PVC Pipe Wrap" sold by Brownells a few years ago as "bedding tape" - is about 0.010" thick.
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Summer and holidays and all that out of the way, I'm finally gonna get back to this project.
I spoke to the great people at Wildcat Composites, which is the stock my .30-06 is mounted in.
I explained my issue, and he gave me some great advice.
My rifle action was glass bedded into that stock, and I never had any accuracy issues, until I broke it out of the bedding, to adjust the trigger.
After I put it back together, I've got stringing with my groups.
I did the old dollar (ok $0.50 bill) bill trick. There is noticeably more pressure on the left side at the fore-end.
So buddy at Wildcat Composites told me to take the action back out, and really check the mounting lugs, for any small amount of dust or debris that might be affecting bearing surface there.
Then put it back together, and make sure to screw the rear screw tight first.
All of this would seem obvious I suppose... anyway, then if that doesn't improve clearance of the stock to barrel, then he said to get a deep socket same diameter as the stock channel and sand it until it is correctly relieved.
Put her back together and then I'll get some more shooting done.
I'm pretty darn sure I've already hit on the right mix, based on velocities and groups I fired previously.
I spoke to the great people at Wildcat Composites, which is the stock my .30-06 is mounted in.
I explained my issue, and he gave me some great advice.
My rifle action was glass bedded into that stock, and I never had any accuracy issues, until I broke it out of the bedding, to adjust the trigger.
After I put it back together, I've got stringing with my groups.
I did the old dollar (ok $0.50 bill) bill trick. There is noticeably more pressure on the left side at the fore-end.
So buddy at Wildcat Composites told me to take the action back out, and really check the mounting lugs, for any small amount of dust or debris that might be affecting bearing surface there.
Then put it back together, and make sure to screw the rear screw tight first.
All of this would seem obvious I suppose... anyway, then if that doesn't improve clearance of the stock to barrel, then he said to get a deep socket same diameter as the stock channel and sand it until it is correctly relieved.
Put her back together and then I'll get some more shooting done.
I'm pretty darn sure I've already hit on the right mix, based on velocities and groups I fired previously.
*Ahem*... well like 6 months after starting on this, today I finally got after checking out the fore-end to barrel contact.
I used a Canadian Tire $0.50 bill...
Couldn't really tell, so I got a slightly thicker piece of paper and cofirmed, definite contact (not much) right at the end of the fore-end.
I then broke the action out of the stock and damn if there was a tiny little spot of rust right at the fore-end, but slightly offset to one side of the barrel channel.
Which exactly backs up the problem as uneven contact.
The more the barrel heated up, the more it contacted at that spot, which would produce the horizontal stringing I was seeing.
I used a 1/2" socket with 150grit sand paper rolled around it, then went up to a 9/16" socket w sand paper. I sanded out just enough to remove the evident rust spot and maybe a thou or 2.
When I put the action back into the stock I then made sure to tighten the rear recoil lug first, snugged her down good, front and rear, then tried the paper. That thicker piece now slides freely.
Theoretically I should be able to shoot and not get those stupid stringing groups.
Now it's back to testing some new loads, when I get time!
I used a Canadian Tire $0.50 bill...
Couldn't really tell, so I got a slightly thicker piece of paper and cofirmed, definite contact (not much) right at the end of the fore-end.
I then broke the action out of the stock and damn if there was a tiny little spot of rust right at the fore-end, but slightly offset to one side of the barrel channel.
Which exactly backs up the problem as uneven contact.
The more the barrel heated up, the more it contacted at that spot, which would produce the horizontal stringing I was seeing.
I used a 1/2" socket with 150grit sand paper rolled around it, then went up to a 9/16" socket w sand paper. I sanded out just enough to remove the evident rust spot and maybe a thou or 2.
When I put the action back into the stock I then made sure to tighten the rear recoil lug first, snugged her down good, front and rear, then tried the paper. That thicker piece now slides freely.
Theoretically I should be able to shoot and not get those stupid stringing groups.
Now it's back to testing some new loads, when I get time!
Holy crap mate, you should have seen the trouble I had fitting that action back together!
The stupid magazine box kept popping out of the bottom metal, and then jamming either on the front or the rear.
I was flipping the rifle this way that way, sliding the damn thing together and *pop*, over n over!!!
I think it took me half an hour to do a simple job of putting that back together!
It's all due to the bedding job that was done on it. Everything is so frickin tight, like zero room.
Rant over.
Oh ya, and I spent quite a bit of time looking over my notes from previous loads, and I'm gonna run up some with 56.5grs H4350 and the 180gr Hornady BTSP.
But I'm working the next 10 straight, all 12 hour dayshifts, so it'll be like 11 days before I can go to the range.
The stupid magazine box kept popping out of the bottom metal, and then jamming either on the front or the rear.
I was flipping the rifle this way that way, sliding the damn thing together and *pop*, over n over!!!
I think it took me half an hour to do a simple job of putting that back together!
It's all due to the bedding job that was done on it. Everything is so frickin tight, like zero room.
Rant over.
Oh ya, and I spent quite a bit of time looking over my notes from previous loads, and I'm gonna run up some with 56.5grs H4350 and the 180gr Hornady BTSP.
But I'm working the next 10 straight, all 12 hour dayshifts, so it'll be like 11 days before I can go to the range.
Holy crap mate, you should have seen the trouble I had fitting that action back together!
The stupid magazine box kept popping out of the bottom metal, and then jamming either on the front or the rear.
I was flipping the rifle this way that way, sliding the damn thing together and *pop*, over n over!!!
I think it took me half an hour to do a simple job of putting that back together!
It's all due to the bedding job that was done on it. Everything is so frickin tight, like zero room.
Rant over.
Oh ya, and I spent quite a bit of time looking over my notes from previous loads, and I'm gonna run up some with 56.5grs H4350 and the 180gr Hornady BTSP.
But I'm working the next 10 straight, all 12 hour dayshifts, so it'll be like 11 days before I can go to the range.
Yeah no good, always something!!
that load you mention should be a gooden, i recently re sighted for woodleighs but i have SFA of them in 150gr so out came the 180gr BTSP we speak of.... i took some fallow deer with them last week at 200-270m an they worked well for expansion.
they certainly arnt the first choice in close scrub work but thats why they made premiums in the first place
i went up a few gr to 47 varget, a poster here forget off top of head, did some testing with varget an went up to 49 an got reasonable velocity, atleast you have the right powder to begin with
In my T/C Icon 30-06, I am using 62 Grains of Superformance behind the 165 grain Accubond or Partition. averages 3/4 moa, and flirts with 3000 fps.
With the 180 Accubond, I load 61 grains of Norma MRP. similar accuracy, and right at 2850
I have a second load with the 180....58.5 grains of IMR 4831. A bit less speed, but still sub-moa. Dave
DISCLAIMER!! Always approach any listed load from 6% below, and work up carefully.
With the 180 Accubond, I load 61 grains of Norma MRP. similar accuracy, and right at 2850
I have a second load with the 180....58.5 grains of IMR 4831. A bit less speed, but still sub-moa. Dave
DISCLAIMER!! Always approach any listed load from 6% below, and work up carefully.
Talltimber1
CGN Regular
- Location
- BC Bring Cash
168's with H4350 is the ticket for me.
So these 2 groups were loaded and fired after the effort to reseat my barreled action into the stock, to get rid of tension on barrel to foreend.
Which I achieved. I actually used 150grit sandpaper wrapped around a 9/16" socket to remove a couple thou from the bottom of the foreend of the stock.
And the barrel is completely free-floating now.
Well I have finally stumbled (literally) unto the load I will use for hunting.
Going back to previous shooting, I had loaded the 180gr Hornady BTSP with 56.5grs H4350, at coal of 3.350". Listed max coal for .30-06 is 3.400".
This was the target. Vel went 2763, 2720, 2724, 2721, 2716. 2728.8fps avg. And a pretty crappy group.
Hmmm... the best accuracy I had seen was in around 54.5 to 55.5grs, so I decided to work toward that, and arbitrarily loaded 56grs.
Also and this is not scientific at all, I could not get over the coal. Just didn't like the look of that 180gr Hornady seated to 3.350"
So I simply adjusted the seating die until the bullet was seated so the cannelure was right in front of the neck.
Fired that today and got an astounding jump in velocity, plus crazy consistent muzzle velocity.
2900, 2895, 2898, 2891 and 2898 mv. Avg mv of 2896.4fps.
This is the target...
First 3 shots.
Final 2 shots, for a 5 shot group.
Now I realize that's not the worlds most accurate group, but I was pretty happy with it. Kinda think I could tighten that up, with a bit steadier rest etc...
A couple quotes from way back in this thread...
MRP "56gr 4350 and a magnum primer was my go to 180 3006."
chuck nelson "You need a couple hundred more FPS."
chuck nelson "Seating depth is far more critical than powder charge and the notion that velocity is detrimental to accuracy is a curious one. I don’t find it to be the case very often. You have a 30-06, use it to its potential."
Big question time... I'm like almost 100fps over max listed velocities for .30-06, with a 180gr bullet.
In Nosler data, 2819fps is the max velocity listed, which was with RL22.
For the record I didn't see issues with cases or primers.
Whatya think?
@chuck nelson, I definitely have got some 'decent velocity' out of this old .30-06.
Which for the record is a 1980 Remington M700, 22" factory barrel, in a Wildcat Composite stock.
Which I achieved. I actually used 150grit sandpaper wrapped around a 9/16" socket to remove a couple thou from the bottom of the foreend of the stock.
And the barrel is completely free-floating now.
Well I have finally stumbled (literally) unto the load I will use for hunting.
Going back to previous shooting, I had loaded the 180gr Hornady BTSP with 56.5grs H4350, at coal of 3.350". Listed max coal for .30-06 is 3.400".
This was the target. Vel went 2763, 2720, 2724, 2721, 2716. 2728.8fps avg. And a pretty crappy group.
Hmmm... the best accuracy I had seen was in around 54.5 to 55.5grs, so I decided to work toward that, and arbitrarily loaded 56grs.
Also and this is not scientific at all, I could not get over the coal. Just didn't like the look of that 180gr Hornady seated to 3.350"
So I simply adjusted the seating die until the bullet was seated so the cannelure was right in front of the neck.
Fired that today and got an astounding jump in velocity, plus crazy consistent muzzle velocity.
2900, 2895, 2898, 2891 and 2898 mv. Avg mv of 2896.4fps.
This is the target...
First 3 shots.
Final 2 shots, for a 5 shot group.
Now I realize that's not the worlds most accurate group, but I was pretty happy with it. Kinda think I could tighten that up, with a bit steadier rest etc...
A couple quotes from way back in this thread...
MRP "56gr 4350 and a magnum primer was my go to 180 3006."
chuck nelson "You need a couple hundred more FPS."
chuck nelson "Seating depth is far more critical than powder charge and the notion that velocity is detrimental to accuracy is a curious one. I don’t find it to be the case very often. You have a 30-06, use it to its potential."
Big question time... I'm like almost 100fps over max listed velocities for .30-06, with a 180gr bullet.
In Nosler data, 2819fps is the max velocity listed, which was with RL22.
For the record I didn't see issues with cases or primers.
Whatya think?
@chuck nelson, I definitely have got some 'decent velocity' out of this old .30-06.
Which for the record is a 1980 Remington M700, 22" factory barrel, in a Wildcat Composite stock.
