The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
jamessmart24
New member
- Location
- North of 7 Ontario
Hey guys, sorry, just posted this on the other crusader thread, reposting here as well. Picked up a templar a couple weeks ago. Just wanted to share some things I have found with mine so far. First off, Love the gun, as stated earlier it seems a little over built, but not necessarily a bad thing if you want a reliable gun. I don't mind the little extra weight, if you cant handle the extra pound or two you shouldn't be playing with big boy toys. Anyways, I bought the one with the buffer tube stock, as it was in stock and ready to go. it came with the 10 rd MFT pistol mag. right out of the box, the mag wouldn't stay locked in the magwell, at all. It would just fall out. Tried a buddies PMAG, it locked in fine, but the bolt would jam to the rear and not load the next round consistently. But, holding the pistol mag in, the gun cycles fine... Contacted FOC, where I bought the gun. They contacted Crusader, said they are aware of the mag issues with both the pistol mag and Gen 2 Pmags,(which mine was a gen 2) they are sending me a Gen3 Pmag assuring me it will work.
I compared both mags and found the issues were clear to see, the pistol mag is slightly narrower, allowing it to wiggle out of the lock. And the gen 2 Pmag has a rounded slot where the bolt catch rests, lifting it slightly higher than it should be. Simply taking a file or knife to and squaring out the slot fixed the issue for the Gen2 Pmag.
Just thought I would share this since there is not much feedback out there on this gun yet.
I compared both mags and found the issues were clear to see, the pistol mag is slightly narrower, allowing it to wiggle out of the lock. And the gen 2 Pmag has a rounded slot where the bolt catch rests, lifting it slightly higher than it should be. Simply taking a file or knife to and squaring out the slot fixed the issue for the Gen2 Pmag.
Just thought I would share this since there is not much feedback out there on this gun yet.
Attachments
My templar came in last week, and I was able to get to the range yesterday.
I had one weird thing when I first opened the box and cycled the action a few times... I heard something metallic rattling around inside. So I shook it around, and a black e-clip fell out. This was of course immediately concerning, so I disassembled the rifle before doing anything further. The only place an e-clip is used seems to be on the bolt catch release, and it was NOT missing. So apparently I had an extra e-clip floating around in the gun... I'm certainly glad I got that out before actually using it. Based on that I did a check on fastener tightness all over, and didn't find anything else of concern.
I shot ~150 rounds of 55g Federal AE and had zero issues with feeding, ejecting, and no light strikes. Successfully fed from Gen 3 p-mags, C-Products LAR-15 mags, and Cross 10/10 mags. I was very happy that it ran this "cheap" ammo, as that is the most readily available and economical available to me locally.
Immediately disliked the stock pistol grip, as I found the finger notch to be very awkward, so I swapped it out to a Magpul MOE-K2 grip. Currently running a Holosun H510C, but am also waiting on a mount for a Primary Arms 1-6x SLX FFP so I can do some longer range stuff.
Overall fit and finish seems really good. There are some leftover machining marks in the trigger guard area, but they are very minor and don't cause any sharp edges or discomfort in there.
The triggertech trigger is SUPER nice. I'm really happy I went for this upgrade.
Hoping to head to my outdoor range this weekend and do some 100y accuracy testing with various bullet weights, and will report back.
I had one weird thing when I first opened the box and cycled the action a few times... I heard something metallic rattling around inside. So I shook it around, and a black e-clip fell out. This was of course immediately concerning, so I disassembled the rifle before doing anything further. The only place an e-clip is used seems to be on the bolt catch release, and it was NOT missing. So apparently I had an extra e-clip floating around in the gun... I'm certainly glad I got that out before actually using it. Based on that I did a check on fastener tightness all over, and didn't find anything else of concern.
I shot ~150 rounds of 55g Federal AE and had zero issues with feeding, ejecting, and no light strikes. Successfully fed from Gen 3 p-mags, C-Products LAR-15 mags, and Cross 10/10 mags. I was very happy that it ran this "cheap" ammo, as that is the most readily available and economical available to me locally.
Immediately disliked the stock pistol grip, as I found the finger notch to be very awkward, so I swapped it out to a Magpul MOE-K2 grip. Currently running a Holosun H510C, but am also waiting on a mount for a Primary Arms 1-6x SLX FFP so I can do some longer range stuff.
Overall fit and finish seems really good. There are some leftover machining marks in the trigger guard area, but they are very minor and don't cause any sharp edges or discomfort in there.
The triggertech trigger is SUPER nice. I'm really happy I went for this upgrade.
Hoping to head to my outdoor range this weekend and do some 100y accuracy testing with various bullet weights, and will report back.
tenringbound
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Atlantic Canada
I think these would look good with a fixed black stock as an option, not a big fan of M4 stocks on anything other than an AR, but that’s just me.
I am glad to see more positive reviews of the Templar. My initial, positive review remains relevant as a result. I called it correctly as an over-built, reliable, durable, somewhat heavy, AR180-based utility/sporting rifle. The Templar is good to go, espectially when equipped with the Trigger Tech cassette. Try one - chances are you will like it!
fritzhanzel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The old AR15 mag release problem. It's a joke and I would ask them to fix the problem or are you willing to put up with that crap?
Well, you could always put some layers of duct tape on the opposite side of the magwell but I would not accept this as a solution for a new rifle.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Jamessmart23, I'm going to add this info to my thread on Templar/Crusader maintenance tips and fixes at Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns...der_arms_templar_crusader_9_maintenance_tips/
Thanks for sharing, and I hope you enjoy your rifle!
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jamessmart24
New member
- Location
- North of 7 Ontario
Thanks Mac. Just for an update the rifle cycles great with 2 different gen3 mags. Also another question. Is there an instructional or manual that would show me how to get at or clean the gas system on this bad boy?
fritzhanzel
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, I managed to squeeze in an afternoon at the range today, despite planning to be back out there for a fun shoot with some friends on Thursday. I wanted to get some rounds through the Templar and zero it in preparation for the unveil to my buddies in a few days time. I anticipate interest in the new platform, particularly based on my range results today!
To start with, here's a pic of the Templar in its "happy place":
Machining imperfections on the Lower Receiver were more difficult for me to see in the natural light than in my Gun Room at home. I didn't even bother to attempt a photo, as I doubt that anything would have shown up. Nobody who examined the rifle today had anything negative to say about the finish. Mind you, none had read the tragic saga of "sloppy machining" as presented in this thread, so their ignorance comes as no surprise. I'll tell my friends about the controversy and see what they have to say about the finish with the rifle in-hand on Thursday. I somehow doubt that anybody is going to care much about a few tiny swirls that can barely be seen on the Lower Receiver....
Reliability with the Trigger Tech-equipped Templar was excellent, with one Failure to Fire in 200 rounds of Bulk 55 gr Aguilla 5.56mm FMJ ammo. The troublesome round fired just fine on the 2nd attempt, so no harm/no foul at this point. If I encounter a future rash of FTFs, it will be the fault of the Trigger Tech system, not the Templar rifle itself, so watch and shoot to see what develops. Right now, I blame a fussy primer for the problem, but we shall see. The rifle digested everything that I fed it, including the Bulk Aguilla, 30 rounds of 77gr IVI HPBT, 30 rounds of 69gr Federal Gold Medal Match HPBTM, and 40 rounds of Barnaul 55gr Steel-Cased FMJ. A total of 300 rounds were fired with the aforementioned single stoppage.
Ergonomics during firing were outstanding. The Trigger Tech Trigger is superb, with a glass-crisp let-off set right at 3 lbs of pull. The feel of the rifle is very solid without any rattles, inspiring confidence in the firearm. The F5 Buttstock locks up tight and there is zero slop or play with the rifle in or out of the shoulder. The optional Cheek-Riser works very well paired with an LPVO in the Kinetic Development Group (KRG) QD Mount. For my testing the optic used was the Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10X SFP Low Power Variable Optic (LPVO).
Accuracy from the Templar at 100m exceeded my expectations. The new rifle performed every bit as well as the Sterling Arms International R18 Mk 2 in terms of both accuracy and reliabllity. For accuracy, 5 round groups were fired with the bulk 55 gr Aguilla load, some IVI 77 gr HPBT ammo and 69 gr Federal Gold Medal Match. I could not retrieve my targets today as there was snow on the ground and nobody around to assist me (I'm in a wheelchair). That said, I was able to measure groups against the 1" grid on the target and was able to snap some lousy but serviceable photos of the Match groups using my phone camera through my cheap 45x Spotting Scope. Not the best, but workable for the sake of grouping evidence.
Generally speaking, here's what you can expect from the Templar's 1:8 Twist, 5.56mm NATO Medium-Weight Barrel:
- Bulk 55 gr Aguilla FMJ ammo: 1.5 - 2 MOA,
- 77 gr IVI HPBT ammo: 2 MOA, and
- 69 gr Federal Gold Medal Match HPBTM ammo: 1 - 1.5 MOA.
Here are the two best (of 4) groups fired at 100m using the Federal Match ammo:
Nothing came loose and nothing broke. Reliability was excellent and accuracy was even better than expected. Subject to further reliability testing, I'd say that Spectre Ltd/Crusader Arms finally have a winner in the race to ecomonoically replace the AR15 in Canadian sport shooter's hands. Areas of improvement for Crusader to work on are as follows:
1. Improve final surface finishing of the Lower Receiver to remove residual tool marks,
2. Offer to refinish stripped "rough" Lower Receivers sent in at owner's expense, free of charge as part of warranty service,
3. Reduce weight by:
- eliminating the Steel Side Panel for the Cam Track. Not required if rifles are properly factory timed and toleranced,
- Remove material from the Bolt Carrier, and
- Flute the Barrel from Chamber to Gas Block and then Gas Block to Muzzle,
4. Enhance Ambidexterity by:
- Include an ambidextrous Magazine Catch, and
-Include the proprietary Bolt Catch on both sides of the Lower Receiver,
5. Make the Buttstock Interface a Picatinny Rail,
6. Provide a folding stock that detents in the folded position,
7. Replace the Charging Handle Stop-Screw. The Philips-head Screws look like a cheap, home workshop solution and are out of place on a firearm. Replace them with Hex-Head Cap Screws or something similar, and
8. Thread the Muzzle 1/2 x 28 to accept standard 5.56mm Muzzle Devices. The current thread pitch is unknown, but is definitely not 1/2 x 28....
All in all, a highly successful, quick trip to the range for zeroing and initial reliability and accuracy testing. The Templar performed extremely well, turning in better than expected accuracy results with outstainding reliabillity. There is a lot to like about the Templar, especially if Spectre Ltd/Crusader Arms are able to address some (or all?) of the points for improvement that we have collectively identified to date.
The way I see it now, if you want a rifle that looks as good as it shoots, pay the extra for the Sterling Arms International R18 Mk 2. If you can live with a few swirls in your metal finish, save yourself $700 and go with the eqivalent version of the Templar. Both rifles offer the same accuracy and reliability, so the only thing separating the two at the present time are their respective designs, the level of fit and finish/final QC. and Warranty Support. The latter remains to be seen with Crusader Arms, although initial reports are positive. SAI's Warranty and customer support has apparently been stellar to date, with free upgrades to early adopters and rapid turn-around of rifles submitted for warranty service.
And I thought it has well under 200 rounds down the tube. So much for how much you can believe EE ads.
My mistake. IIRC it was 300 rounds fired for the review and another 60 showing the rifle to some friends about a week later. Since then, I have been preoccupied with my Bren 2, CZ 600 Trail, and other platforms, so the Templar has sat unused. I have corrected my EE listing in the interests of accuracy. My thanks to Fritzhanzel of the Internet Truth Police, for dredging up my review from earlier this winter and cross-referencing my statements for round-count accuracy. Your service to the community is duly noted....
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I would if I could, but I need the cash! If I wasn't in need of some quick $$ for something else I've wanted for a looong time, I wouldn't be selling the Templar, which I quite like and is (in my assessment) a fine MSR. Of them all, and not having yet tried the BCL Siberian, I think that the Templar hits the sweet spot in the Canadian market for the AR-180 derived designs. At $2200 with the TriggerTech Trigger installed, it is at a competitive price-point with established reliability and accuracy. The WK-180s cannot keep up in terms of durability and reliability, and the Sterling R18 Mk2 costs $500 more with a milspec trigger.....
Thanks for the heads-up! Unfortunately, "soon" is a relative term. The chief designer of the R18 has been talking about a factory-installed Trigger-Tech since before the rifle went on sale to the public, so I am sure that it will eventually happen. The only down-side is that SAI will apparently sacrific the Muzzle Brake that is currently provided with the rifle in the intererest of trying to maintain the same price-point. Profit margins are so reazor thin on those rifles that every penny literally counts, and to get something new (Trigger-Tech) something else (Muzzle Brake) has to give. It is that, or raise the price of the rifle another $200 and risk pricing yourself right out of the market. Tough call....
I can see myself buying another Templar in the not too distant future - I just need to recharge the hobby fund with a few unremarkable sales, then I will be back in the market. A recent acquisition has tapped me our for the time being and forced the sale of my first Templar for cash money. I will either get a new Templar or a Siberian, assuming the positive reviews continue for the latter platform. We shall see. One thing is certain however - I don't need both so will have to decide between them. I may try the Siberian next, just to give it a fair ownership shake. Time will tell.
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Why are aftermarket trigger so expensive? On a side note, the BCL MRX Bison has a trigger Tech trigger. I was a bit confused at first I must say. Also I saw on trigger techs web site that they are planning a more affordable trigger for AR15. I think $400 plus tax and shipping is a bit steep.
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MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I will update the thread with this information, thanks for the follow-up. Send me a DM with your email and I'll send you the Crusader Templar PDF manual that I have.
Tangentially related, I just passed the 600 round mark on my Crusader 9 5.56mm upper this weekend. Not a single action-related stoppage so far. 900 rounds through the 9mm upper, there have been a few stoppages on that upper, but that's a longer story.
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Put another ~120 rounds through the templar on Monday morning. Zeroed my LPVO to 100y, in anticipation of testing some heavier bullets to see how accurate it can get. More to follow on that.
0 feed, ejection, or firing issues. Running like a dream so far with close to 300rds.
The only issue I've had is the supplied MFT 10rd pistol mag does not lock the bolt open when empty. Tried it fully loaded, 5 rds, and 1 rd, and always fails to hold open. No other magazines have that issue (Cross, Gen 3 Pmag, Cproducts LAR pistol mag). Somewhat disappointing considering that's the one it ships with...
0 feed, ejection, or firing issues. Running like a dream so far with close to 300rds.
The only issue I've had is the supplied MFT 10rd pistol mag does not lock the bolt open when empty. Tried it fully loaded, 5 rds, and 1 rd, and always fails to hold open. No other magazines have that issue (Cross, Gen 3 Pmag, Cproducts LAR pistol mag). Somewhat disappointing considering that's the one it ships with...
Direct from CA, yes it did.
If you didn't get one... reach out. But ask for a PMAG instead lol
