The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
I've thought about doing a barrel swap on one. You'd have to get someone (IBI?) to build you a 18.5" barrel of the contour of your choice with a mid length gas system. Then you'd have to remove the barrel trunnion from the monolithic upper to swap out the barrel. Other than that, it shouldn't be any more complicated than any other barrel swap, I wouldn't think.
What's the point of a barrel-swap? If you are thinking of going to a lighter-weight profile, be careful how thin you go. The first R18 that I tested had a pencil barrel that couldn't handle the cycling of the piston, which apparently induced an unacceptable amount of barrel-whip. Whatever the case actually was, accuracy with a pencil-weight barrel using the AR180 Gas System was a non-starter due to less than acceptable (and ever-variable) accuracy.
The only reason for a barrel swap, in my mind, is to put on an actual match grade barrel or do a caliber swap. The Crusaders take the same bolt as the WS and WK so you could build a 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC or a 7.62x39 if you wanted. I like accurate rifles so it would be cool to see just how accurate one of these would be with a match grade barrel. In reality, it's far easier to go that route with an R18 though given the rifle length gas system and the adjustable gas block (for a different caliber).
Has anyone tried lancer magazines in this rifle? Mine seems to not want to feed the last round from a lancer mag, not a big deal as every other magazine worked flawless but just thought it was odd just that last round from the lancer magazine would stay in and the bolt would carry forward without it.
I actually just discovered my one lancer magazine does not fully lock into the magwell you can actually pull it out, I have 4 other lancer mags and they seem to lock in proper, I’m guessing this is likely the issue.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Could you see any difference in the way the Lancer magazines are manufactured in terms of the slot where the magazine release engages the magazine, or elsewhere?
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I tried comparing its very difficult to tell, it must just be ever so slightly off enough to cause the problem, I did confirm the other lancer mags did work 100 percent, funny thing is I swear I have used that other one in another rifle at one point and it did work.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I was going to say that I've inserted (but not shot from) a Lancer magazine (I was trying out my friend's Lancer mags) in my Crusader 9 and it both seated and ejected correctly but then I remembered the mag well was redesigned between the Crusader 9 and the Templar, so this is something where small design differences could make that difference.
I find it helpful to set two things to compare side by side, like actually set one beside the other so you can look quickly from one to the other. Another, higher-tech method would be to take a picture of both magazines from exactly the same angle and overlap them in a image manipulation program like Photoshop.
It's always the same magazine which doesn't lock? You've tested them repeatedly side-by-side?
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Yes it is only my one lancer magazine that will not lock in all the way causing it not to feed the last round, my other lancer magazines all lock in and function 100 percent, so I just set aside the one lancer mag for now. I also tested almost every other AR mag under the sun and had no problems.
Thank you for that heads up. You weren't kidding!
After over a month long wait, I finally have it in my hands. Initial impressions is that that's nice, but definitely not flawless. The finish is quite good, but there are some parts that aren't perfect, which I understand you get what you pay for. Below I've uploaded two YouTube shorts showing you some examples:
Finishing around the hinge pin: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WbdNm3DKW2s
Cutting around the rear takedown plate: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/stjuUMt1uSI
I had some trouble initially with the bolt catch/release lever. I posted a YouTube video here explaining:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5UkNyGJgM
After getting off the phone with Spectre Ltd. I understood that the issue was a loose c-clip (retention clip) that fell out causing everything to come loose inside. After finding the clip and reinstalling it, everything was functioning fine. Here's a video explaining the fix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPSOnU2eyiQ
I've since put my accessories on (had enough time on my hands waiting for the damn gun) and will post other videos as I have more time on my hands.
Cheers.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
You're welcome GreasyChi, glad you worked through it.
I've run into this issue three times. The last time I did, I put some blue loctite underneath the clip. Link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns...der_arms_templar_crusader_9_maintenance_tips/
The e-clip is a very odd size: 11/64" - if you ever need to buy replacements. CA was kind enough to send four replacements the first time it happened, and I've only lost one - the other two I managed to find. Page 13 of the Templar manual at the CA website provides details on how to replace the clip - I know you've already done it - this is aimed at other Templar and Crusader 9 shooters who may run into this issue.
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An update on the missing screws on the plate... got the replacement ones and some red loc-tite from CA. Installed, ran ~140 rounds through and no issues. That puts me somewhere between 500-600 rds. All AE FMJ 55g so far, though a better price on PMC Bronze just popped up for me so I may grab a case of that for the next 1k rounds.
I think I've had ~6 FTE and double feeds (not sure if that's the correct term, I had FTE on the empty case and next round jammed up behind it) in those 600 rounds. All of them have come with 1 specific p-mag, and one side of a Cross mag. So I've marked those mags to see if problems continue into the future.
All other magazines are functioning properly, including the MFT pistol mag it came with that initially had issues not holding the bolt open. So I'm not sure what that was about, but I'm happy that a variety of magazines seem to function well in the rifle.
Still haven't had a chance to do some 100y accuracy tests with different bullet weights, but will in the next month or so I hope.
I think I've had ~6 FTE and double feeds (not sure if that's the correct term, I had FTE on the empty case and next round jammed up behind it) in those 600 rounds. All of them have come with 1 specific p-mag, and one side of a Cross mag. So I've marked those mags to see if problems continue into the future.
All other magazines are functioning properly, including the MFT pistol mag it came with that initially had issues not holding the bolt open. So I'm not sure what that was about, but I'm happy that a variety of magazines seem to function well in the rifle.
Still haven't had a chance to do some 100y accuracy tests with different bullet weights, but will in the next month or so I hope.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Hi Bart, do you happen to know if the P-MAG is gen 2 or gen 3? I think you've answered that previously, but I'm not sure.
Gen 2 has known issues with the Templar. Gen 3s work fine.
Glad your firearm is up and running again. I passed through 730 rounds of 5.56mm and 1100 9mm in total over 5-1/2 months in my Crusader 9 Sentinel and Liberator respectively.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Hey Templar and Crusader 9 Sentintel owners, a heads-up about a failure in a Templar after 200 rounds that I personally haven't seen before:
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/14fus9s/templar_failure/
Looks like what the Templar manual calls the "Gas Valve Pin" (see page 14 of the Templar Manual, available here: https://www.crusaderarms.ca/manual-download ) walked out or was otherwise forced out, at the same time that the brass deflector screws walked out or had become weakened by over-torquing . The gas valve pin was launched downrange. Another possibility is that the gas block itself cracked and separated enough for the "pin" to be pushed out.
As this could result in your "gas valve pin" (sounds mis-named to me) being a projectile instead of/as well as your bullet, probably a good idea to occasionally check if your gas valve pin is walking out.
To be clear, CA hasn't confirmed this is the actual cause of the problem, but I thought people should be aware that this is a possible failure. I haven't seen it reported anywhere else and I've been watching fairly carefully in all the forums I frequent.
[EDIT] Update from the thread - CA says that they also believe the gas valve pin walked itself out but the firearm is being sent back for review just in case. Clearly a part like this shouldn't walk itself out. Check your gas valve pin, CA firearm owners!
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/14fus9s/templar_failure/
Looks like what the Templar manual calls the "Gas Valve Pin" (see page 14 of the Templar Manual, available here: https://www.crusaderarms.ca/manual-download ) walked out or was otherwise forced out, at the same time that the brass deflector screws walked out or had become weakened by over-torquing . The gas valve pin was launched downrange. Another possibility is that the gas block itself cracked and separated enough for the "pin" to be pushed out.
As this could result in your "gas valve pin" (sounds mis-named to me) being a projectile instead of/as well as your bullet, probably a good idea to occasionally check if your gas valve pin is walking out.
To be clear, CA hasn't confirmed this is the actual cause of the problem, but I thought people should be aware that this is a possible failure. I haven't seen it reported anywhere else and I've been watching fairly carefully in all the forums I frequent.
[EDIT] Update from the thread - CA says that they also believe the gas valve pin walked itself out but the firearm is being sent back for review just in case. Clearly a part like this shouldn't walk itself out. Check your gas valve pin, CA firearm owners!
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MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
In case you didn't come across it, CA teased an image of a lower set up for firing 7.62x39mm.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CtzLhRFrG7d
Upper visible in a "story" from FB:
https://www.facebook.com/stories/108001848404788/
Yes, you heard right. A Templar-style rifle in 7.62x39mm by CA.
It's great that they're cranking out new models, but I wish they would perfect/support the ones they've already released a little more intently.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CtzLhRFrG7d
Upper visible in a "story" from FB:
https://www.facebook.com/stories/108001848404788/
Yes, you heard right. A Templar-style rifle in 7.62x39mm by CA.
It's great that they're cranking out new models, but I wish they would perfect/support the ones they've already released a little more intently.
Added thread for the new Crucible to the Red Rifle forum, pre-sale in link. Probably available at forum vendors in September. https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2384879-The-Crucible-Thread-7-62x39mm-by-Crusader-Arms-Spectre-LTD?p=19714501#post19714501
Will people want this when you can SigmoCo Canada-out a Type 81 or get a WK181-C? Time will tell.
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Saw this exact thing happen during a match yesterday... Shooter fired maybe 25 shots over 75 seconds before his gas valve pin and piston puked out the front of his rifle... no more pews for him! And yes, it was factory ammo! Hopefully no damage and an easy fix.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Oooo... that's not good. Prior to this new report that was the first time I had heard of a piston ejection scenario. All the more reason to check the tightness of the "gas valve pin" regularly.
Ustauk said:
Thanks for that. Crucible, Crux and Templar. Well, I'll hand it to them that they are not common names. No chance of mixing them up with other firearms.
I bought a used Crusader Templar rifle this past week (previous owner said he put around a 100rds through it-I would concur as there was no wear and tear that I could see). Field stripped the rifle and gave it a very little oiling. I checked all the worry points mentioned in this thread and found no issues with any of them. PS the Templar is the model with the Trigger Tech trigger and it is SO nice.
I loaded up a batch of 223 ammo (55gr Campro bullets with 27.2gr of BL-C(2) powder should be running around 3275fps) then headed to the range. I shot 205rds through the rifle (that's all I brought) report: zero FTF or FTE no malfunctions at all, I used two of my LAR-15 mags. I was having so much fun with the rifle that I ran through all the ammo before I had a chance to do some serious 100m bench work but with the standing off hand groups I was getting at 25m and 50m it gives me great hope that she will make some nice groups at 100m. After I got home I again open up the Templar and looked at all the worry points, nothing seems to be amiss including the gas pin which is nice and tight. I know this is a very early report but I am pleased with the rifle (I'm an old fart and have 12.5 on my license and have FN L1A1s, HK91s, AKM and a Steyr Aug in my safe). I hope to put at least 150rds of ammo through the rifle each week for the rest of the summer so I should have shot 1500rds by Sept 1. I will do some updates as the summer progresses including some 100m and 200m accuracy tests. The rest of the holiday weekend is going to be spent making up more 223.
I loaded up a batch of 223 ammo (55gr Campro bullets with 27.2gr of BL-C(2) powder should be running around 3275fps) then headed to the range. I shot 205rds through the rifle (that's all I brought) report: zero FTF or FTE no malfunctions at all, I used two of my LAR-15 mags. I was having so much fun with the rifle that I ran through all the ammo before I had a chance to do some serious 100m bench work but with the standing off hand groups I was getting at 25m and 50m it gives me great hope that she will make some nice groups at 100m. After I got home I again open up the Templar and looked at all the worry points, nothing seems to be amiss including the gas pin which is nice and tight. I know this is a very early report but I am pleased with the rifle (I'm an old fart and have 12.5 on my license and have FN L1A1s, HK91s, AKM and a Steyr Aug in my safe). I hope to put at least 150rds of ammo through the rifle each week for the rest of the summer so I should have shot 1500rds by Sept 1. I will do some updates as the summer progresses including some 100m and 200m accuracy tests. The rest of the holiday weekend is going to be spent making up more 223.
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