And then it'll just be a heavy ugly gun made of lots of screws at USD $1800 competing with a very large number of other better made, lighter, better manufacturer reputation guns
The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
And then it'll just be a heavy ugly gun made of lots of screws at USD $1800 competing with a very large number of other better made, lighter, better manufacturer reputation guns
So far I am very happy with the Templar and at 1000rds have had zero FTE or FTF, no issues at all. Myself and 4 friends have fed the 1000rds through it and they all like the rifle too, one friend did complain about the weight but he's a Gen Z and a whole buck twenty soaking wet 
. I grew up on FNs, H&K91s and Garands so 9 or even 10 pound rifles just seem normal to me. I check the rifle before and after each trip to the range expecting to have the issues raised here but so far nada. And the accuracy I'm getting from my handloads are more than acceptable, I'm averaging about 1.8 MOA-and I'm positive with a higher power scope and younger eyes groups could get well below 1.5 MOA.
. I grew up on FNs, H&K91s and Garands so 9 or even 10 pound rifles just seem normal to me. I check the rifle before and after each trip to the range expecting to have the issues raised here but so far nada. And the accuracy I'm getting from my handloads are more than acceptable, I'm averaging about 1.8 MOA-and I'm positive with a higher power scope and younger eyes groups could get well below 1.5 MOA.MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
So far I am very happy with the Templar and at 1000rds have had zero FTE or FTF, no issues at all. Myself and 4 friends have fed the 1000rds through it and they all like the rifle too, one friend did complain about the weight but he's a Gen Z and a whole buck twenty soaking wet
Yeah, I'm quite happy with mine as well. It really seems like a QA/QC crapshoot. As long as owners are checking for identified issues and know the fixes, I think we'll be good. 900+ rounds as of last week, not a single FTF/FTE. A couple issues with the e-clip for the bolt hold open lever, but after I worked out what was happening with that with Spectre tech support, it's been fine.
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I've used my LAR-15 and Cross Industries 10rd mags and have had no issues with them. I do have some other 223/556 pinned mags but haven't bothered to try them out. I'm hoping to go to the range tomorrow and Sunday and put some more rounds through it and maybe I'll try some different mags to see if they work.
You should have quoted my whole post.
In a market as big as the US there very well may be enough collectors who don't care that it's inferior and just want something uncommon and unusual.
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I've tried and found to work with no issue (for me): CPD LAR-15, Cross Industries 10/10 mags, Hera H3, PMAG Gen 3s, Generic STANAG, Lancer L5AWM.
There is a small difference in the configuration of the lower's magwell between the Crusader 9 and the Templar lower. I'm not sure if that may have any effect on over-insertion or FTF. I should try to sit down with someone who has a Templar and take some very specific measurements of the magwells and check with a light the inside of the magwell to see if there are significant differences internally.
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Just a PSA for shooters that aren't made of sugar ��
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Yuck. That's not cool. Good thing to watch out for, thanks!
Sold off my Templar. Honestly, the rifle is ultimately poorly designed, and lacks the aftermarket support and user-friendly features necessary for me to consider it a good NR Canadian option. It's also on the mid-upper end in terms of price.
By far the biggest gripe I have is the takedown and disassembly. Accessing the gas block is difficult and awkward due to the monolithic upper. Removing the barrel is an incredibly difficult and convoluted task that requires removing a bunch of screws caked in loctite, removing the steel rail insert, removing any muzzle device you might have, etc... Mine had a crooked gas block, which i found out is due to misaligned gas block screw holes on the barrel, and the gas block vent holes are offset by a few millimeters to one side.
THE ####ING SCREWS caked in loctite is an absolutely asinine production choice. They apparently did this to fix wandering zero issues, but it also made removing the barrel an absolute nightmare, because you're stuck with a monolithic upper/handguard, with a tiny bottom removable plate to unscrew the barrel nut. I don't give a #### that i need to use heat to loosen the loctite, why do i even need to do this in the first place? I should be able to strip down the full thing with nothing at all except hands and maybe a cartridge.
You know what, the WK180 guns and most others options aren't even that bad, because while the design of those might be basic and they had a lot of reliability issues, at least they were user-friendly and a lot of aftermarket support pop up to fix most of these issues (And you have Gen2 versions which were overall a lot better). Meanwhile, the Templar is just a fundamentally poor design at it's core, and there isn't much hope of it getting better
That's without even mentioning the ridiculous weight for a 5.56 rifle, that is mostly contributed by the absurd handguard design. The gun upper assembly is quite tall overall, having the shape of an upright rectangle instead of the usual circular shape seen in all other 180 type platforms, and that alone contribute to a higher weight and higher center of gravity.
You get two large circular holes that travels the entire handguard (Which are used as channels for the charging handle), which is entirely unnecessary. Then the entire handguard is really quite thick and poorly skeletonized. Combine this with a grossly oversized gas system, you get a gun that is subtantially more front heavy than a T-81, and has the weight profile of a .308 gun.
The Templar feels like a pre-production, version 0.6 (WIP) gun that would have been used as a proof of concept, and then make a better, proper production design.
By far the biggest gripe I have is the takedown and disassembly. Accessing the gas block is difficult and awkward due to the monolithic upper. Removing the barrel is an incredibly difficult and convoluted task that requires removing a bunch of screws caked in loctite, removing the steel rail insert, removing any muzzle device you might have, etc... Mine had a crooked gas block, which i found out is due to misaligned gas block screw holes on the barrel, and the gas block vent holes are offset by a few millimeters to one side.
THE ####ING SCREWS caked in loctite is an absolutely asinine production choice. They apparently did this to fix wandering zero issues, but it also made removing the barrel an absolute nightmare, because you're stuck with a monolithic upper/handguard, with a tiny bottom removable plate to unscrew the barrel nut. I don't give a #### that i need to use heat to loosen the loctite, why do i even need to do this in the first place? I should be able to strip down the full thing with nothing at all except hands and maybe a cartridge.
You know what, the WK180 guns and most others options aren't even that bad, because while the design of those might be basic and they had a lot of reliability issues, at least they were user-friendly and a lot of aftermarket support pop up to fix most of these issues (And you have Gen2 versions which were overall a lot better). Meanwhile, the Templar is just a fundamentally poor design at it's core, and there isn't much hope of it getting better
That's without even mentioning the ridiculous weight for a 5.56 rifle, that is mostly contributed by the absurd handguard design. The gun upper assembly is quite tall overall, having the shape of an upright rectangle instead of the usual circular shape seen in all other 180 type platforms, and that alone contribute to a higher weight and higher center of gravity.
You get two large circular holes that travels the entire handguard (Which are used as channels for the charging handle), which is entirely unnecessary. Then the entire handguard is really quite thick and poorly skeletonized. Combine this with a grossly oversized gas system, you get a gun that is subtantially more front heavy than a T-81, and has the weight profile of a .308 gun.
The Templar feels like a pre-production, version 0.6 (WIP) gun that would have been used as a proof of concept, and then make a better, proper production design.
In my case, it was to fix a crooked gas block (tilted about 7-8 degrees off to one side). Since i already owned a WK-180C, i was familiar with the gas block system (The Templar use essentially the same) and figured all i needed to do was remove the gas block/barrel assembly (Since the upper is monolithic, i can't just remove the handguard to access it) so that i can tap it back straight on. Hilariously enough, this was something i also did on the WK-180C, and this one went off without a hitch.
What followed up was a conundrum of issues caused by screws caked in loctite, which essentially made it impossible to remove them using regular tools, and stripped out quite a few in the process.
Basically, a relatively simple process that should have took 30 minutes evolved into a 10 hour job.
To be honest, this endeavor is probably the main contributor for the negative opinion i developed on the Templar. I would have endured the heavier weight otherwise, but this combined with everything else was the thing that broke the camel's back.
Can't say actually, i fixed the misaligned gas block before firing it for the first time. I did it mostly as a preventive measure, as i knew a misaligned gas block on a piston system would most definitely cause some additional wear and breakage issues, something that happened on WK rifles as well.
I suspect the rifle would have cycled either way, but it's just not good practice to leave it like that, and i didn't want to deal with the whole ordeal of shipping it back, waiting a few weeks to get it fixed, etc...
MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Unfortunate. I wish you better luck and satisfaction with your next firearm! I haven't done the full detail strip, only the field strip, so I haven't tried to wrestle with those screws yet, only four near the rear takedown pin.
Yeah, owning a Canadian AR-180 can be a roll of the dice, and I'm beginning to feel that with mine maybe I just rolled extra well. Well, I can't say as I wasn't warned.
Long time lurker and figured I'd finally post with my up to date experience with Crusader Arms. I ordered the templar solo with the trigger tech trigger.
May 22nd: attempt to order but kept receiving errors from their website. Emailed crusader and they promptly replied and accepted my order/ payment method. Guess they had too many orders come In and where having issues with their website.
June 12th: followed up by email with Crusader to see where things were at as it's been radio silence.
June 15th: crusader arms replies stating my order should be complete end of next week.
June 21st: receive tracking number from crusader arms
June 28th: followed up with crusader as the package hadn't been dropped off at a canada post office yet and was stuck on "Electronic shipping information submitted by shipper"
July 10th: follow up again on shipping again as the order Still hasn't actually been shipped and I still have heard from anyone from crusader on when they'll ship it.
July 20th: follow up yet again for the same reasons as just above
July 21st: finally received a reply from crusader stating it'll be going out the next morning.
July 24th: follow up with crusader as once again the item still hasn't been picked up by Canada post
July 26: email crusader again looking for any kind of an update.
July 26th: crusader replies with an completely different tracking number then what was given to me over a month ago and informed me the item is now shipped.
July 31st: templar gets delivered to me.
Now I'd like to say that's the end, it's all rainbows and sunshine but sadly it's not.
Received rifle, unbox and inspect and I'm Impressed. It's everything I expected and looks great. Go to install the accessories I already have for it, a primary arms red dot and a occam Defense fixed stock. Go to install the occam Defense stock and it doesn't fit on the rear pic rail. Weird. Set It aside figuring maybe something was wrong with the machining of the stock. Install the red dot and it fits perfectly. Get an idea and try to install the red dot on the rear stock mount pic rail and it doesn't fit (it was the only other pic rail mounting accessory I had to test with) then I tried putting the stock on the top rail (to ensure stock was machined correctly) and it fits. Now I sat on this info for a few days considering what to do. Next night I pull out my digital caliper to compare measurements between the upper pic rail and the rear pic rail for the stock and sure enough the rear stock pic rail was machined too tall and no pic rail accessories will fit on it.
August 9th: send crusader an email asking them if both top and rear pic rails should be of the same dimensions (didn't want to come in aggressive pointing fingers. Just wanted a quick resolution to it) and informed them that none of the pic rail accessories I have fit on the rear pic rail.
August 10th: crusader replies stating that the item is delivered and here's my tracking number.
August 10th: I reply stating the item was delivered however that wasn't my question and then proceeded to ask the question again about the pic rails.
August 10th: crusader replies stating they should be the same size. Ask me if I'm installing the accessories correctly.
August 10th: I reply stating I am.
August 10th: crusader asks if I have any other accessories I can try on the rail to see if it truly is the rail dimensions that are the issue. They also say if that is the case I can send the templar back to them for them to inspect.
August 10th: I reply stating that I only have two pic rail accessories and neither of them fit the rear pic rail. Ask them when they can send me a shipping label so I can send it back to them.
August 11th: I follow up with them again on this.
August 14th: I follow up with them again on this.
August 15th: I follow up with them again on this.
And that brings us to today. No reply from crusader on the next steps they want to take to rectify this issue. At this point I've now had my templar two weeks and haven't been able to put a single round through it since I can't mount a stock on it. I'm just waiting for them to reply so we can sort this out, whether that means I send it back to them to inspect or they send me a newly machined rear pic rail mount.
I'm still happy to own this firearm, but they're extreme lack of communication has entirely killed my appeal to support this company. Even if this firearm exceeds all my expectations, I'll never suggest someone purchases one direct from the company.
I'm hoping they can pull it together and correct these issues.
I'll update this as it progresses
May 22nd: attempt to order but kept receiving errors from their website. Emailed crusader and they promptly replied and accepted my order/ payment method. Guess they had too many orders come In and where having issues with their website.
June 12th: followed up by email with Crusader to see where things were at as it's been radio silence.
June 15th: crusader arms replies stating my order should be complete end of next week.
June 21st: receive tracking number from crusader arms
June 28th: followed up with crusader as the package hadn't been dropped off at a canada post office yet and was stuck on "Electronic shipping information submitted by shipper"
July 10th: follow up again on shipping again as the order Still hasn't actually been shipped and I still have heard from anyone from crusader on when they'll ship it.
July 20th: follow up yet again for the same reasons as just above
July 21st: finally received a reply from crusader stating it'll be going out the next morning.
July 24th: follow up with crusader as once again the item still hasn't been picked up by Canada post
July 26: email crusader again looking for any kind of an update.
July 26th: crusader replies with an completely different tracking number then what was given to me over a month ago and informed me the item is now shipped.
July 31st: templar gets delivered to me.
Now I'd like to say that's the end, it's all rainbows and sunshine but sadly it's not.
Received rifle, unbox and inspect and I'm Impressed. It's everything I expected and looks great. Go to install the accessories I already have for it, a primary arms red dot and a occam Defense fixed stock. Go to install the occam Defense stock and it doesn't fit on the rear pic rail. Weird. Set It aside figuring maybe something was wrong with the machining of the stock. Install the red dot and it fits perfectly. Get an idea and try to install the red dot on the rear stock mount pic rail and it doesn't fit (it was the only other pic rail mounting accessory I had to test with) then I tried putting the stock on the top rail (to ensure stock was machined correctly) and it fits. Now I sat on this info for a few days considering what to do. Next night I pull out my digital caliper to compare measurements between the upper pic rail and the rear pic rail for the stock and sure enough the rear stock pic rail was machined too tall and no pic rail accessories will fit on it.
August 9th: send crusader an email asking them if both top and rear pic rails should be of the same dimensions (didn't want to come in aggressive pointing fingers. Just wanted a quick resolution to it) and informed them that none of the pic rail accessories I have fit on the rear pic rail.
August 10th: crusader replies stating that the item is delivered and here's my tracking number.
August 10th: I reply stating the item was delivered however that wasn't my question and then proceeded to ask the question again about the pic rails.
August 10th: crusader replies stating they should be the same size. Ask me if I'm installing the accessories correctly.
August 10th: I reply stating I am.
August 10th: crusader asks if I have any other accessories I can try on the rail to see if it truly is the rail dimensions that are the issue. They also say if that is the case I can send the templar back to them for them to inspect.
August 10th: I reply stating that I only have two pic rail accessories and neither of them fit the rear pic rail. Ask them when they can send me a shipping label so I can send it back to them.
August 11th: I follow up with them again on this.
August 14th: I follow up with them again on this.
August 15th: I follow up with them again on this.
And that brings us to today. No reply from crusader on the next steps they want to take to rectify this issue. At this point I've now had my templar two weeks and haven't been able to put a single round through it since I can't mount a stock on it. I'm just waiting for them to reply so we can sort this out, whether that means I send it back to them to inspect or they send me a newly machined rear pic rail mount.
I'm still happy to own this firearm, but they're extreme lack of communication has entirely killed my appeal to support this company. Even if this firearm exceeds all my expectations, I'll never suggest someone purchases one direct from the company.
I'm hoping they can pull it together and correct these issues.
I'll update this as it progresses
