Thoughts on how IPSC works

I took a look at the financial statements for IPSC. They are in the public domain and if you are curious you could run a google search as well.

Gross sales was under 300K in 2010. To put that into perspective a decent tim horton's location would have a gross sales of 2,000,000.

While I have no idea on the ethics of anybody in IPSC, the statements confirmed what I thought about the organization. IPSC is not on TV, the level of sponsorship is limited, the institution is supported by its membership fees and that there would not be so much as one match put on if it was not for the support of volunteers.
 
Dallas, you seriously think ICS classes are as reliable and indicative of actual skill as a USPSA classification??

You may prefer the turtle, but that's just it: that is your preference. I prefer the "metric", but even more than that I prefer a choice. IPSC is either "practical" (which pinto thinks it is) in which case the turtle targets are wrong, or it is not, in which case there should be no limitations on target setup.

I'm sick and tired of the PC-ness. Miniture targets not bring allowed in front of full size?

Random changes in standard division magazine length limit for no reason?

All that BS because of one insane rules dictator and the corrupt region vote system.

Just look at what they did to IPSC shotgun open. Nations that had no business voting all gave their votes to the EC, enacting law changes that ruined shotgun open.
 
D_ said:
IPSC Canada is not a lobby organization. It is an organization with a lot of members that does have a voice.

Different bosses would have no change on the state of the sport.
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Do you honestly believe any of that?
I mean really>?

Just what voice do we have? What does this "voice" acomplish other than whisper in a hurricane?

New "bosses" and I do so love that you chose that term instead of "leaders".
That is very telling indeed...........

What we need are not new bosses...........we need LEADERS!! But the system is designed to keep the bosses i place and the leaders at bay.
 
matchDQ said:
I'm fairly new to IPSC so please don't kill me but what did they change about standard division mags? Did they drop the box and go for an overall length?
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A fairly recent rule change dropped the allowed magazine length down to 126mm or something. I don't shoot Standard, so I'm not exactly sure... Everyone had to get new mags IIRC.

It's just that things like this happen without a good reason.
 
I have no intention if starting a fight and I agree the system can be improved. Most of us are going to be happy with the status quoif there is no alternative that is clearly better. If USPSA is clearly better than we would all have memberships and start clubs. But we all dont.
 
Welcome to IPSC.! This has been going on since the 90's that I know of and maybe longer. These are big fish in a small pond, and everybody covers for everybody. IPSC in the Olympics has been floated since 1996, or just go back to when IPSC decided to remove the B-zone from our targets, that's when the Olympic pipe dream began. As someone who shot then and now, I prefer then. Just my opinion - stages were better, fewer restrictions on course design (32 round field course - please...), fewer divisions. The players you describe are well entrenched, good luck with that fight if you try and remove them, it will be long and you will get bloodied, not saying it may not be worth it, just go in with eye's wide open. Personally, I have more enjoyable things to do with my time than fight IPSC, or shoot IPSC right now. It can be fun, and this is by no means is an attack on anyone who still enjoys the sport, or any of the exec. I really don't care, just a little history to add to the IPSC soup.
 
Unregistered_ said:
A fairly recent rule change dropped the allowed magazine length down to 126mm or something. I don't shoot Standard, so I'm not exactly sure... Everyone had to get new mags IIRC.

It's just that things like this happen without a good reason.
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Canada and maybe another region (I don't remember0 did have a exemption from the 126mm max mag length rule which was granted to us by the IPSC World Body. This allowed us to use 140mm mags due to our proximity to the US which allowed 140mm mags in Standard/Limited and that way we only would need one set of mags. This exemption also allowed us to only have to fit the gun in the box without a mag inserted. We lost this exemption quite some time ago, I think it's almost 4-5 years now.
 
matchDQ said:
I'm fairly new to IPSC so please don't kill me but what did they change about standard division mags? Did they drop the box and go for an overall length?
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SVISTI1911 said:
Canada and maybe another region (I don't remember0 did have a exemption from the 126mm max mag length rule which was granted to us by the IPSC World Body. This allowed us to use 140mm mags due to our proximity to the US which allowed 140mm mags in Standard/Limited and that way we only would need one set of mags. This exemption also allowed us to only have to fit the gun in the box without a mag inserted. We lost this exemption quite some time ago, I think it's almost 4-5 years now.
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The pertinent exemption to the 2004 rules (taken from a letter sent by Sean Hansen, Regional Director, to Nick Alexakos, President and the four members of the Executive Council) was:
Appendix D2 - Standard Division
Magazine length restrictions - See box
Box - Yes with magazine inserted – No magazine is not required
Canada requests that our members be allowed to use maximum 140mm long double stack magazines and 170mm
long single stack magazines and further that the pistols be required to fit in the box without the magazine inserted. As
in the earlier request, the primary reason is the close proximity to the USA Region, which will be operating under
these variances. Canada has a maximum 10 round magazine capacity restriction. This exemption will allow our
members with single stack pistols to compete on an equal basis with the double stack pistols in Canada and will
allow the double stack owners to utilize one set of equipment for both local and USA IPSC competitions. IPSC
Canada expects this exemption will allow us growth, consisting of past-lost members and new members by being
able to offer these people the ability to be competitive again with relatively low cost single stack pistols.
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According to the NROI Canada website the exemptions were withdrawn effective July 1, 2009:
Exemptions are gone!!

Canada's exemptions for Open and Standard Division are gone as of July 1, 2009. All competitors must now comply with the international rules for each division. This means that the minimum bullet weight for major in Open Division is 120 grains. For Standard Division, A handgun in its ready condition, but unloaded and with an empty magazine inserted or empty cylinder closed, must fit wholly within the confines of a box which has internal dimensions of 225mm x 150mm x 45mm (tolerance of +1 mm, -0 mm). Note: that all magazines must comply.
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It was a bit pricey, I paid $590.94 for 7 126mm magazines and base pads.

Meanwhile, my 140mm magazines have been goofing off for the last few years. These can be used in USPSA Limited or Limited-10 but for IPSC they would put me in Open when I am trying to be in Standard.

Snapshot

As a sidebar the current exemptions for Canada (from a letter from Vince Pinto to Sean Hansen 09 March 2010) are:
Please be advised that the IPSC Executive Council has formally approved your request for rule
exemptions, in order to comply with the laws of Canada, as follows:
1. Limiting magazine capacity in all pistol divisions to 10 rounds; and
2. Increasing the minimum distance for the engagement of metal targets to 10 meters.
Please ensure your membership understands that the subject exemptions only apply in respect of
IPSC competitions held within Canada.
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Unregistered_ said:
A fairly recent rule change dropped the allowed magazine length down to 126mm or something. I don't shoot Standard, so I'm not exactly sure... Everyone had to get new mags IIRC.

It's just that things like this happen without a good reason.
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I asked the question at the Global Village and mag length rules never changed. It was an exemption that expired over 5 years ago and the explanation made sense to me.
 
matchDQ said:
I asked the question at the Global Village and mag length rules never changed. It was an exemption that expired over 5 years ago and the explanation made sense to me.
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Actually the exemption was withdrawn effective July 1, 2009 which was a little over three years ago.

Whether having the exemption or withdrawing the exemption makes sense is a matter of opinion, but it is done now and I doubt it will ever be reconsidered.

The 140mm magazines are welcome in USPSA Limited and Limited-10, and of course in IPSC Open.

Snapshot
 
ICS is a joke the proof of that is who won the classes. we need a canada wide system similar to the one used by the uspsa, ipsc ont has one and it works, too bad the other provinces can't see that
 
Madness said:
ICS is a joke the proof of that is who won the classes. we need a canada wide system similar to the one used by the uspsa, ipsc ont has one and it works, too bad the other provinces can't see that
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Rumor has it the ont system has been offered to all provinces at this year agm and I've been told at least BC and AB sections declined...
 
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