Time to Delete! Thanks

Vault Distribution said:
I have to interject here, as I find it very hard to listen to all this petty talk about doubling the price and price gouging. I'm guessing some of you on here don't understand how many months we've worked to bring this line to Canada. The cost of several business trips to the U.S., hours invested in promotion and marketing plans for the Canadian market, plus a major financial commitment to Kel-Tec to make the Canadian market even worth looking at for them. I started talks with Kel-Tec in October of 2009, closing a deal in early February of this year. I spent the first few months dealing with the CFR trying to get these firearms approved with FRT numbers so they were legal for sale in Canada. Then their was the five months of hell dealing with the United States Department Of State, of which you all have heard about our nightmare their trying to get the RFB and Sub2000 approved for export.

You all have to understand these Canadian version Kel-Tec's were, un boxed and sent to the manufacturing line twice after they were ready to ship. The first time for the milling off the 7.62mm from each RFB, and laser etching the .308 Win and re boxed. That wasn't good enough for DOS so a week in a half later they were un boxed, and sent back to the floor to have them all re chambered officially in .308 Win. Kel-Tec is a very busy company, and each time they had to make these changes to the RFB's they had to pull the manpower, and adjust their manufacturing schedules to fit these in and bump other customers. Do you think that all this manufacturing time is free? Please tell me that their is somebody on here that works in a manufacturing plant and can explain this to people. We have also offered to Kel-Tec to pay for the moulds charges for the Canadian version RFB, so in future they don't have to mill off the 7.62mm and laser etch the RFB-C and .308 Win. These moulds are fairly expensive and another cost incurred to make the Canadian version. Am I supposed to eat this? I can't even tell you the time and money I have invested in this deal without a penny of return yet.

I'm a very fare guy and run Vault Distribution Inc. the same way gentleman. We are trying to bring change to this countries firearm industry by providing the utmost level of service to all of you, and our dealers across Canada. Vault Distribution Inc. is hoping to bring some other interesting product lines to you in the very near future as well.

All dealers selling the Kel-Tec line will be under contract with a MAP price program we have in place. So standardized pricing across the board. As far as the RFB retail price, we are doing our best to keep it at $2499.

I am working on the shipping details as I type with Kel-Tec. I hoping these will ship Friday or the beginning of next weeks at the latest. I will confirm this all to you when I know.

Thank you all again for your patience and support.


Sincerely
Steve
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Hey look you can sell anything for any price you want but dont get bent because I said double and more the US price is ridiculous. Thats my opinion and its just that my opinion. If you dont like opinions then dont post on public forums drumming up sales.

I dont care how much work you put into it nor does it matter, your doing it to make money this I understand, ya they had to do this and that. Is Kel-tec going to do this dance of assembly and re-assembly and restamping on new guns they make?
I really doubt it and if they are they really dont have a clue on how to manufacter a rifle.

Kel-tec did this to sell guns, I`m sure the first ones on the approval process was a hassle but you cant seriously say that this is the way that Kel-Tec will make every gun for Canada hence the double and more price.
 
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Steve,

MOST of us more than appreciate the hard work and dedication that you've shown towards the community. Thank you.

It normally appears that all the naysayers and price quibblers never have any intention of purchasing the product in the first place. They simply like to :stirthepot2:.

It has always been understood by true enthusiasts that things will cost more because of import fees, modifications, etc. Unfortunately, there are some that think you should just give them an item out of the goodness of your heart and your business should be run like a hobby for pure enjoyment.

You are not belholden to anyone that makes you try feel guilty, or is just friggin' cheap. The community also has an inordinate amount of tin foiled hat conspiracy theorists that see a sinister meaning behind everything they don't or won't understand.

Keep up the good work and thanks again. You have been honest and professional in all our email correspondance and public disclosures.

I look forward to completing the purchase on my RFB and having fun with it.

Cheers.
 
The packaging, unboxing, relabelling the barrel, then repackaging, then unboxing, having to actually rechamber them and finally repackaging, is Keltecs own fault!

They should have never packaged them and such until the paperwork was finalized!

The longer barrel I can understand was something out of the ordinary that was an extra cost and I can understand paying for the re chambering and re stamping the barrels, but don't make it seem like the packaging and un packaging was anyone elses fault but theres!
 
I tend to agree with OZZ. I have worked in manufacture and do appreciate that the first runs of any item can be expensive. I appreciate that vault is trying to bring this weapon into the country, however price loading the first items to cover all initial costs can be counter productive. It sounds like Vault is making every effort to make the manufacturing process as streamlined as possible. It is somewhat disingenuous of kel-tec not to swallow some of the costs and and at least also help in the streamlining of the manufacturing process to achieve the best possible unit cost for the Canadian version. They after all would benefit from more sales and there profit per unit would be higher. I would suggest having the .308 chambering and stamping should help with the world wide export of this product. It amazes me that any company would stamp their weapons 7.62 given the US reluctance to allow export to non LE markets.
Kel-tec would be well served moving to a standard 18.5 inch barrel and threading and chambering only differing for different markets.
Price this product too high and you will get good initial takeup with rapid drop off. This can already be seen happening in the US market as the price of the rifle seems to have collapsed to $1400-1500.
I agree Vault needs to cover costs and get a decent return on investment, the question Vault has to ask is how many of these rifles can they sell in Canada?
If they think the market is only 2-300 rifles then they better get the most out of the first 100.
If they think they can sell a couple of thousand especially at a more competitive price point then, the long game may be the wiser course of action. The more exposure these weapons get in Canada the more likely they are to succeed, word of mouth is more productive then all the online video and glossy pictures.
Selling at a high price point will guarantee a certain exclusiveness but not always the best sales.
My 2 cents, I certainly wish vault well and I hope to pick up one of these weapons in the future. However, at this point in time I'll wait and see. Like I said at $2000-2100 i would be all over it. If Steve wants to call me on it, he can offer me one for $2000. I'd pay the full amount in advance.
 
Vault Distribution said:
I have to interject here, as I find it very hard to listen to all this petty talk about doubling the price and price gouging. I'm guessing some of you on here don't understand how many months we've worked to bring this line to Canada. The cost of several business trips to the U.S., hours invested in promotion and marketing plans for the Canadian market, plus a major financial commitment to Kel-Tec to make the Canadian market even worth looking at for them. I started talks with Kel-Tec in October of 2009, closing a deal in early February of this year. I spent the first few months dealing with the CFR trying to get these firearms approved with FRT numbers so they were legal for sale in Canada. Then their was the five months of hell dealing with the United States Department Of State, of which you all have heard about our nightmare their trying to get the RFB and Sub2000 approved for export. Oh.. not including the SU16A2-C that we're still working on.

You all have to understand these Canadian version Kel-Tec's were, un boxed and sent to the manufacturing line twice after they were ready to ship. The first time for the milling off the 7.62mm from each RFB, and laser etching the .308 Win and re boxed. That wasn't good enough for DOS so a week in a half later they were un boxed, and sent back to the floor to have them all re chambered officially in .308 Win. Kel-Tec is a very busy company, and each time they had to make these changes to the RFB's they had to pull the manpower, and adjust their manufacturing schedules to fit these in and bump other customers. Do you think that all this manufacturing time is free? Please tell me that their is somebody on here that works in a manufacturing plant and can explain this to people. We have also offered to Kel-Tec to pay for the moulds charges for the Canadian version RFB, so in future they don't have to mill off the 7.62mm and laser etch the RFB-C and .308 Win. These moulds are fairly expensive and another cost incurred to make the Canadian version. Am I supposed to eat this? I can't even tell you the time and money I have invested in this deal without a penny of return yet.

I'm a very fare guy and run Vault Distribution Inc. the same way gentleman. We are trying to bring change to this countries firearm industry by providing the utmost level of service to all of you, and our dealers across Canada. Vault Distribution Inc. is hoping to bring some other interesting product lines to you in the very near future as well.

All dealers selling the Kel-Tec line will be under contract with a MAP price program we have in place. So standardized pricing across the board. As far as the RFB retail price, we are doing our best to keep it at $2499.

I am working on the shipping details as I type with Kel-Tec. I hoping these will ship Friday or the beginning of next weeks at the latest. I will confirm this all to you when I know.

Thank you all again for your patience and support.


Sincerely
Steve
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Keep up the good work, i have no doubt sales will prove you right.

And btw, that's a nice venting, much classier than John's from Marstar:p:nest:
 
mlehtovaara said:
is Keltecs own fault!
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First, you don't know that - you don't know what the US authorities told them over the phone or in writing before doing formal denials. You do know that the requirements changed more than once.

Second, so what? They aren't going to eat the cost for a market the size of Canada's.

I'm simply amazed that both Vault and Kel-Tec stuck it out.

If you don't like the price or can't afford it, look elsewhere.
 
C'mon guys. Fact is that retail is 1800+ in the states.

Take into account that they then have to deal with:

1) paying employees
2) redesigning the rfb to meet canadian laws (longer barrel, engraving removed, re engraved, re-proofed) Odds are they needed to use new tooling designed for 308 rather than 7.62x51 because of the export laws.
3) Cost of submitting samples to the canadian and american governments. Are these returned?
4) They're a business - they need to make money.
5) the businesses that're distributing need to make money.

Suddenly an extra $800 doesn't seem all that much when it's divided 5 or more ways.
 
acrashb said:
first, you don't know that - you don't know what the us authorities told them over the phone or in writing before doing formal denials. You do know that the requirements changed more than once.

Second, so what? They aren't going to eat the cost for a market the size of canada's.

I'm simply amazed that both vault and kel-tec stuck it out.

if you don't like the price or can't afford it, look elsewhere.
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exactly!!!
 
H Wally said:
C'mon guys. Fact is that retail is 1800+ in the states.

Take into account that they then have to deal with:

1) paying employees
2) redesigning the rfb to meet canadian laws (longer barrel, engraving removed, re engraved, re-proofed) Odds are they needed to use new tooling designed for 308 rather than 7.62x51 because of the export laws.
3) Cost of submitting samples to the canadian and american governments. Are these returned?
4) They're a business - they need to make money.
5) the businesses that're distributing need to make money.

Suddenly an extra $800 doesn't seem all that much when it's divided 5 or more ways.
Click to expand...

Try more like $1300us to $1500us retail. All but one of the costs is a one time cost NOT on every gun ever made for Canada or the rest of the world. You cant seriouslly say that every gun made for Canada is going to go thru this ordeal that you went thru the first time.


None of this matters as he can sell for whatever he wants but dont say we are lucky to pay $2500 or more,the other thing that totally pisses me off is this bulls**t that dealers are doing this for the firearms community, come on now..... its all about the cash or they wouldnt do it period.

Also this has nothing to do with affordabillity its more the laughabillity with me....
 
OZZ said:
Try more like $1300us to $1500us retail. All but one of the costs is a one time cost NOT on every gun ever made for Canada or the rest of the world. You cant seriouslly say that every gun made for Canada is going to go thru this ordeal that you went thru the first time.


None of this matters as he can sell for whatever he wants but dont say we are lucky to pay $2500 or more,the other thing that totally pisses me off is this bulls**t that dealers are doing this for the firearms community, come on now..... its all about the cash or they wouldnt do it period.

Also this has nothing to do with affordabillity its more the laughabillity with me....
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This, and all the other previous railing, from a guy that thinks Kel-Tec sucks and has no interest in the product anyway, let alone put up some cash for one.

I don't care what your reasons are, or really, if you're remotely right. I'll spend my money as I please. I don't need anyone shilling for me thanks.

The laughable part about all this, is you getting all wound up about a product you apparently despise.

Blood pressure. The silent killer;)
 
tbloggins said:
This, and all the other previous railing, from a guy that thinks Kel-Tec sucks and has no interest in the product anyway, let alone put up some cash for one.

I don't care what your reasons are, or really, if you're remotely right. I'll spend my money as I please. I don't need anyone shilling for me thanks.

The laughable part about all this, is you getting all wound up about a product you apparently despise.

Blood pressure. The silent killer;)
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I`m not wound up in the slightest man, I`m just pointing out the obvious. :)

I`m done paying thru the nose for firearms stuff, been there done that and that was when our Canadian dollar was way below par and double the price was the norm.
Seems the more our dollar rises the less it buys in guns and ammo and gas :)
 
The PMR 30's, Sub 2000's and RFB's will all ship at the same time. As I said before I hoping the shipment will leave Kel-Tec this Friday or the beginning of next week at the latest.
 
Everybody has to make money one way or the other, i'm sure we would all do the same thing if were in Steve's shoes. 2400-2600 is a decent price for such great unit. Think about it.. it is a $1000 cheaper then Tavor... and it shoots a caliber that is more suitable for hunting.... what more can you ask for...? I really cant wait to get my hands on one, and will gladly pay the price.... :)

would be nice though if barrels were threaded...

Great thanks to Steve. good work.
 
So I assume there is no FRT for these yet!

So even if they make it into the country in the next couple months, it could be awhile before they are issued an FRT, no?

I know theoretically these should be non-restricted but what are the chances the RCMP can #### with the classification?

What grounds could they use? Not barrel length, not overall length, Not a variant of any kind, but could it be easily converted to full auto?

I guess you can call me paranoid, but can you blame me?
 
mlehtovaara said:
So I assume there is no FRT for these yet!

So even if they make it into the country in the next couple months, it could be awhile before they are issued an FRT, no?

I know theoretically these should be non-restricted but what are the chances the RCMP can f**k with the classification?

What grounds could they use? Not barrel length, not overall length, Not a variant of any kind, but could it be easily converted to full auto?

I guess you can call me paranoid, but can you blame me?
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There was a FRT for these a very long time ago ( the restricted version anyways) . ArmsEast had one classified ages ago by the RCMP.

Vault Distribution said:
I spent the first few months dealing with the CFR trying to get these firearms approved with FRT numbers so they were legal for sale in Canada.
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As well looks like Vault had the non res version classified as well
 
To all the whiners- bring some kel-tecs in for less money then. Otherwise stfu. I'll enjoy my RFB.

Steve- thanks again for doing this. Also please send the first RFBs to p&d!
 
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