TNW Suomi M31 Impressions

fugawi said:
Its the pinned mags. I have no problem with five round mags on a hunting rifle or a milsurp rifle. But on a black rifle or milsurp smg - it just burns me.

*bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* change *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* *bang* change... ...repeat.:mad:

ARs & XCRs not withstanding.
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Even worse with one mag! Reload-Reload and I don't think they come with speed loaders either.
 
agentcq said:
Even worse with one mag! Reload-Reload and I don't think they come with speed loaders either.
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Even with the ton of weight, the overly long barrel, the too small 1 mag, these are still cool guns and non restricted means they can be used for plinking away from a range. We're still lucky to have the option to buy one of these.
 
cantom said:
Even with the ton of weight, the overly long barrel, the too small 1 mag, these are still cool guns and non restricted means they can be used for plinking away from a range. We're still lucky to have the option to buy one of these.
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True enough. Its like the XCR debate in the Black Rifles section. Would still like the option of a short barrel restricted one.

I'll stick to my Cooey 64B for plinking in gravel pits.
 
cantom said:
Even with the ton of weight, the overly long barrel, the too small 1 mag, these are still cool guns and non restricted means they can be used for plinking away from a range. We're still lucky to have the option to buy one of these.
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Think of the Cardio Workout with that ton of weight with the Suomi.
If everyone bought one in Canada and carried it around the house, the range, did a few bench presses with it, we would be a real fit nation of hard bodies. So long to the couch potato and the jelly bellies.
 
tiriaq said:
Surely more magazines willl become available.
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Yeah, they will. No real dates as of yet but if things go well STICKS AND DRUMS FOR EVERYONE!

Shot one yesterday and while our range is only 20m It kept them inside a large ragged hole. Quite impressed to say the least! though 5 rounds is hard after being "Spoiled" with 10rd pistol mags in rifles... Sad as THAT statement is.
 
The doctrine of use for the Kp31 is interesting compared to the current doctrine regarding the use of submachineguns.

Today (well, say up to the 1980s anyways) people such as supply truck drivers, AFV crewmen, artillerymen, signalmen, were issued a compact submachinegun to defend themselves, as their other duties precluded their being able to carry more s**t.

Back in the 1930s, the doctrine in some countries (Hungary, Finland, Italy, etc) called for the use of submachineguns more in a role similar to a squad automatic weapon, or surrogate assault rifle, hence the quick change barrel feature on the kp31, the drum magazines, coffin magazines *if only :(*, and the requirement for 'loaders' to accompany kp31 gunners. I am sorely tempted to obtain the TNW but I have other priorities now.
 
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I took mine out today and was overall less than impressed. I had to set the sights to 300 (at 100 yards) and aim high to even hit the target. The bolt pull is very heavy, followed by the trigger pull which is extremely heavy. Add to that the same problem as everyone else in that the mag needs adjustment to insert on the closed bolt. Magazine is also very very tight in it's magwell....some adjustment needed there. Lastly, the end cap rotated while firing.....this may have caused the two jammed rounds that occurred.
Front site post is also HUGE, blacking out the bullseye completely on a 50yd pistol target. That is going to get some narrowing at the same time that it gets filed down a bit to correct the elevation problem.

So out of the box, I would have to say they are a fixer upper. Not unlike the TNW M1919A4 (GPMG), which also required a bit of work and break-in. In the end the TNW M1919A4 became one of my favorite guns. Not sure this one will ever be a favorite, but I'll get to work on it soon enough. The M1919A4 had the benefit of the 250 round belts....the 5 round mags in these are a real let down.
 
Suomi M31 Review:

Packaging: I purchased my rifle from SFRC and the bonus Bob Allen gun case and un-issued Finnish leather sling were a nice bonus. The packaging itself was top notch.

Finish: The metal had some rough welding (TNW parts welded to original parts) but the new parkerized finish was of high quality - making this rifle look like a new rifle. The stock was lightly sanded, showed use and mine had a small repaired crack. The new metal on a worn stock doesn't quite look right. I liked how TNW matched the bluing of their new receiver to the worn bluing of original parts on their MG34 series of rifles. Without close inspection it made the MG34 look like a used MG. The metal finish on the Suomi is brand new, similar to the TNW 1919's but with the worn wood - something doesn't look quite right.

Many parts still had original Finnish and SA markings. The rifle was made of miss-matched original parts and new TNW parts. The magazine was original finish and had orignal SA markings.

Design/Function: The rifle design is simple, almost primitive (the safety is a good example - it looks like a modified Spam key). Take down was easy - I didn't even need to look at the instructions (not included) but for someone who plays with rifles/pistols the take down was quick and intuitive. If you want to remove the trigger assembly you would need a screw driver.

I do not like the magazine well - if you can call it a magazine well. Without practice you really need to make sure you are sitting the magazine properly. This requires you to take your eye off your target, something I wouldn't want to do if under fire. Magazine wells of the MP38, CZ858, M14, C7 etc are of a much better design.

The magazine also didn't feed that well. Every five shots I would have 1-2 miss-feeds. With a five round restricted magazine and when you are limited to only one magazine this is very frustrating. Maybe if I lived in the US with a 70 round drum magazine this wouldn't matter. I do not know if the problem was ammo (S&B 124 grain 9mm)? The magazine being restricted? Or TNW's poor fitting?

However, compared to TNW's MG34's and 1919's I think for the first time to the range the Suomi actually performed pretty well - but not to the standard I have for most off-the-shelf semi's. The Suomi is also about 1/6 or 1/8 the price of a TNW MG34 or 1919 (but then again the belt fed semi adds some value).

I have to admit, I like my SSD BD38 (Copy of the MP38) much more. Easier to load (speed loader), better magazine well design, magazines are more common and simply it functions better. Then again, I could buy 4-5 Suomi's for the price of my BD38.

I also found that the rifle was large and heavy (almost too large to be an MP). Even with the tanker stock and a short barrel I would prefer the folding stock of the MP38.

Accuracy: Mine seemed to shoot low.

Conclusion: The Suomi is still a neat rifle which earned its name in history due to the efficiency in which it killed Soviets. We need more magazines for this rifle, in order to make recreational/varmint shooting viable. The TNW semi gives us an opportunity to own a neat rifle/gun that we couldn't own before. The Suomi was historically important in the development of MP's and this allows collectors/shooters to own a shootable example.

If you are a plinker or wish to own a more accurate/lighter rifle which does not jam - go buy a CZ858 (magazines and ammo are plentiful and many are darn accurate to 300 yards - they are also very fast/smooth shooting).

If you already own a CZ858 like I do and are interested in the history of the Suomi, go out and buy one. I was not disappointed in my purchase but I wasn't overly thrilled after inspection either. I would give this rifle Two-Three Stars out of Five.
 
agentcq said:
Suomi M31 Review:
Finish: The metal had some rough welding (TNW parts welded to original parts) but the new parkerized finish was of high quality - making this rifle look like a new rifle. The stock was lightly sanded, showed use and mine had a small repaired crack. The new metal on a worn stock doesn't quite look right. I liked how TNW matched the bluing of their new receiver to the worn bluing of original parts on their MG34 series of rifles. Without close inspection it made the MG34 look like a used MG. The metal finish on the Suomi is brand new, similar to the TNW 1919's but with the worn wood - something doesn't look quite right.
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Does yours look like parkerized? Mine looks like sandblast and weak oxpho blue. I need to look at some original examples and perhaps change the finish on this one.
 
agentcq said:
Suomi M31 Review:

I also found that the rifle was large and heavy (almost too large to be an MP). Even with the tanker stock and a short barrel I would prefer the folding stock of the MP38.
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This is what we need:

U3rY5.jpg


agentcq said:
The Suomi was historically important in the development of MP's and this allows collectors/shooters to own a shootable example.
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I know it had an impact on the Soviets who designed their own copy - the PPsh 41. Not sure what other SMGs or MPs were influenced by the Suomi. Care to elaborate why it was historically important in the development of MPs?

I do believe the Suomi was the right weapon at the right time for the Finns in 1940, when the Soviets persisted in mass 'human wave' attacks during winter against defenders within fortified forest positions without proper coordinated artillery and armour support. Things were different for the Finns in 1944.

The shock effect of massed firepower was used by the Soviets subsequently but again at a huge cost in casualties. There has to be a certain disregard for the survivability of your own troops to make it work. Something the Soviets and later Chinese (Korea) had in abundance.

agentcq said:
I would give this rifle Two-Three Stars out of Five.
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Sounds fair, thanks for the review.
 
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I had to set the sights to 300 (at 100 yards) and aim high to even hit the target
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With the sight issue...I'm guessing the lonnnngggg barrel is actually slowing the bullet down after the powder is all burned off. Does that sound possible?
 
Keep in mind its fires a 9mm bullet - its not a longer range weapon irregardless of the sights being graduated from 100m out to 300m.

(Handgun?) muzzle velocity of your typical 124gr FMJ is 1120 fps. Compare that to a 7.62x54mm rifle cartridge at 2580 fps for a 180gr bullet. Rifle round muzzle velocity is twice that of the 9mm.

I don't know if the longish barrel is really much of a factor. Suppose the only way to know is to do comparison tests using a chronograph.

If we're lucky, maybe Smellie has already done it and will chime in about the effect of barrel length on velocity re the 9mm.
 
I guess someone would have to chrony a round to see if the FPS is still up there; I believe the longer barrel would be better. Once it was on target the accuracy was not that bad. If there was a reduction in velocity I would have expected the accuracy to get a lot worse.
 
It was at 100 meters. I have no problem hitting 12" plates at 100m with either sten or sterling.

I do not think TNW bothers to perform sighting tests on their guns. I am not even sure how much they test fire each individual product, if at all. As I said earlier, TNWs normally require tweaking and tinkering out of the box.

Please don't take my negativity wrong. At least there is another neat product on the market. The way our gun laws were written and modified, the anti gun lobby really did not want these types of guns on the market here in Canada. So another bit of variety on the mil-surp market is nice to see. It also makes it look more ridiculous that you can fire these non-restricted, but a converted auto (basically the same gun but without the closed bolt crap) cannot leave the house because it's too dangerous.

They were $700 and not $1700. At $700 I don't mind tinkering with it a bit. If only TNW would make up a new receiver Bren, I would be all over it.
 
Sure I feel the same way about the XCR even with all the loctite crap. Its good to have manufacturers bring new product to market. I've wanted a Suomi for a long time as unlike you, I am a Finn collector. I even tried buying a dewat Suomi a few years back but got screwed on the deal.

If this eventually comes with a short barrel then I'll give it serious consideration. Right now the long barrel is too much of a turn off for me. Non restricted is no plus - its going to be fired on a range for me. Only my hunting rifles need to be used anywhere but a range.

Other opinions may vary.
 
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