To those T97NSR owners with a barrel "gouge"

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North_Sylva said:
OK.

The factory had done an analysis on the T97 barrels, and have come up with the following report.

Cause
• A small percentage of rifles are affected by this issue.
• The factory has not been aware of a potential problem and has always used the same machine to drill the gas ports. The machine is working properly, but it’s a manually operated machine.
• The cause is because the drill bit will sometimes break inside while drilling. The operator has to push the broken drill head out of the port by insert another drill into the hole; the broken drill bit can then cause a slight impression in the rifling.
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First off, I commend North Sylva in taking this issue to the manufacturer. Remember, NS is a distributor not a manufacturer. The issue belongs to the manufacturer!
Now, that said, I call BS to Norinco's explanation of the cause. I run my own fabrication and manufacturing shop and I can tell you that their "cause" is total BS. The damage is caused by drilling (milling) too deep, PERIOD! If one were to break off a drill bit in a hole, you cannot "push" the broken tip through the remaining material by chucking another drill bit and continuing to drill. Won't happen. A drill bit is made from treated tool steel. It's hard! A second drill bit on the back of another broken bit will result in more broken pieces or a grossly enlarged hole due to wander. The only way to remove a small piece like that is by wire EDM. Also note that in the photos provided, the "gouge" in the barrel below the hole is of a flat bottom profile (from the best that I can see). That means that these holes are more than likely made with an end mill and not a drill bit.
Ultimately is it lack of proper manufacturing and machining procedures that is causing this issue. I'm sure however that it is cosmetic only. Remember, you bought an inexpensive Chinese made firearm from Norinco, a company that is known to have less than better fit and finish but on the most part they all still go bang!

Kudo's for NS looking into this for us!
 
Ummmm no, but thanks for coming out. North Sylva is a distributor. They are buying products from a manufacturer to sell. At a good profit. They have relationships with the manufacturer and they have leverage with the manufacturer. You'll recall North Sylva got the original product redesigned so it passed RCMP approval. Kudos for them for looking into why they are taking money for products with lousy fit and finish? Puhleeeeze.

The T97 is an $1100 product. I don't know about you, but I don't consider that "inexpensive". That's the price of a decent AR. That's twice as much as the M305 which comes out of the same plant. Its significantly more than AutoOrdnance M1 carbines, VZ58s. Its about the same as a Benelli R1.

FF

Porschemann said:
Remember, you bought an inexpensive Chinese made firearm from Norinco, a company that is known to have less than better fit and finish but on the most part they all still go bang!
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Porschemann said:
[...]I'm sure however that it is cosmetic only. Remember, you bought an inexpensive Chinese made firearm from Norinco, a company that is known to have less than better fit and finish but on the most part they all still go bang! [...]
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1st thing: thanks for the machining info...I was waiting for a comment like this.

2nd thing: I agree that you have to be realistic about what you are buying. It is a Norinco, and even though it's a $1000 Norinco, we all know (or reasonably should know) that the fit/finish is never top quality. Nevertheless I am very happy with my T97 so far.

3rd thing: despite what daniel_250r states, ("every person on here has a gouge in their barrels and the ones that dont probably cant see worth a damn or dont know where the gas hole is"), after 360 rounds fired my T97 does not have the gouge. I am perfectly capable of finding it if it did.

Having said that, I don't necessarily blame those who have "the gouge" for being a bit upset, but I really don't see that it's a big deal in the end if you maintain your gun reasonably well. I suppose that if the way in which NS is dealing with this whole issue is a mistake, then the market will sort that out in good time.

Just my 2 cents...
 
bcbravo2zero said:
3rd thing: despite what daniel_250r states, ("every person on here has a gouge in their barrels and the ones that dont probably cant see worth a damn or dont know where the gas hole is"), after 360 rounds fired my T97 does not have the gouge. I am perfectly capable of finding it if it did.



Just my 2 cents...
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bcbravo2zero, Buy some lottery tickets,Just my 2 cents...

Now we know , "Sold AS IS POLICY " , you get caught with defective rifle.
 
Actually, if you import products from China and sell them here, you essentially become the manufacturer as far as warranty/legal responsibility goes. Since there is no recourse for the consumer to sue or otherwise take legal action against the manufacturer in these cases, it falls on the importer. You would have to check your provinces consumer protection acts, but basically if you wanted to return the rifle for a full refund it wouldn't be too difficult.
 
My gouge isn't so much a gouge as a small depression. It was obviously caused by over drilling as it is nice and clean and then chromed over (I think)

Im not worried about it. There is a hole RIGHT through the barrel on the other side.

Maybe this depression/ gouge is just a manufacturing tollerence?

I had a Stag AR that needed the rear sight driffted waaaay over to zero as the front was canted. Stag sayed "manufacturing tollerences"

... my t97 front post is dead on balls straight and I like the rifle very much.

Am I the only guy who could care less about the gouge?
 
Hitzy said:
Actually, if you import products from China and sell them here, you essentially become the manufacturer as far as warranty/legal responsibility goes. Since there is no recourse for the consumer to sue or otherwise take legal action against the manufacturer in these cases, it falls on the importer. You would have to check your provinces consumer protection acts, but basically if you wanted to return the rifle for a full refund it wouldn't be too difficult.
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Ya, but I don't know that it would be a slam-dunk win.
Is a t97 with a gouge in the barrel still merchantable and fit for the purpose for which it was intended? Have the implied warranties been breached? That is a question of fact and law. And I think I know what NS's position is...
 
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I have not been paying attention to type 97 threads.. I am going to go check mine right now.
 
bcbravo2zero said:
Ya, but I don't know that it would be a slam-dunk win.
Is a t97 with a gouge in the barrel still merchantable and fit for the purpose for which it was intended? Have the implied warranties been breached? That is a question of fact and law. And I think I know what NS's position is...
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The problem is that NS is judge, jury, and defense. Its opinion is inerrantly biased.
 
I could not see anything on mine (if I am looking in the right place).. I only have fired 20 rounds so far.
 
jdman said:
such a huge issue, yet you have bumped a douchy WTB ad for 3 weeks now? you will "consider" a gouged barrel, but the price better reflect that? :rolleyes:
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Yes. Whats your point ?

I am interested in a t97... Not at any price and not in any shape...

#### me right ??
 
jdman said:
well you seem to be the one making the biggest deal out of this issue, so.... is it just so you can afford to buy one, and think if you make a big enough stink about it, someone will be so desperate to sell it for cheap? :rolleyes:
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Yes you are a genius.

You got me. :jerkit:
 
FyreFighter said:
Ummmm no, but thanks for coming out. North Sylva is a distributor. They are buying products from a manufacturer to sell. At a good profit. They have relationships with the manufacturer and they have leverage with the manufacturer. You'll recall North Sylva got the original product redesigned so it passed RCMP approval. Kudos for them for looking into why they are taking money for products with lousy fit and finish? Puhleeeeze.

The T97 is an $1100 product. I don't know about you, but I don't consider that "inexpensive". That's the price of a decent AR. That's twice as much as the M305 which comes out of the same plant. Its significantly more than AutoOrdnance M1 carbines, VZ58s. Its about the same as a Benelli R1.

FF
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$1100 is cheap compared to other non restricted bullpup.
 
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