What BOLTGUN says on CGN does not make something illegal!
Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!
- Thread starter Gravel Agency
- Start date
What BOLTGUN says on CGN does not make something illegal!
Aprilia Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canadian "WET" Coast (Raincouver)
They are in "denial"
They can't accept the fact that the OIC was written badly and it accidentally included the shotguns with over 20mm in diameter. No mater what yapping they do on the internet, they will still need to face the courts when they get arrested. As others have pointed out Minister Blair's FB post and tweets are NOT THE LAW!
That's a few thousand dollars there of lawyers fees and possible confiscation of thier guns while their case is being heard.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
you're right!, however, you have seen the RCMP say they will enforce the law, You have a noted Lawyer who specializes in firearms law say it, and you have had a retired police officer who has given opinion evidence in court on firearms analysis say you will most like get charged, and you have a poorly worded OIC that has LOTS of ambiguities. But maybe, just maybe, you could try not to "fool" the others who are less versed in the law than you are.
If you ignore that, have at it.
Boltgun
“Today a firearms owner was arrested in possession of 3 assault weapons banned under an OIC issued by a past liberal government. Also found in his possession was 1200 rounds of ammunition and a large hunting knife. His trial date is pending”
- CBC NEWS
Fast forward to trial date.
Prosecutor walks up to jury with firearm. Pulls out digital caliper. “You see the diameter is 20.43mm which makes this weapon an assault weapon under a previous prohibition.”
How do you like you chances in front of a jury anon
L86 All Terrain
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- North
The law is the law and up to the digression of the officer. If you have your shotgun out and buddy the cop is a Liberal, or is having a bad day, you can and will be charged. It will be up to you to bear the cost of a legal fight in court to prove your innocence. Even if you win, you are still shelling out $5,000+ to the system. Bill Blair's tweet probably isn't enough evidence to prove your innocence when the measure your bore in the courtroom at 20.35mm and the law states 20mm. No Judge would let you off with that because the law is clearly written. Tweets don't override laws, unless it is in regards to illegal border crossings.
CosmiC10R
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Living the Dream in Rural Alberta
Buzzballer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
I’m struggling to find where in the firearms act that it actually says to remove all muzzle devices before measuring? I’m onboard but I can’t find anything that actually says where you measure the bore of a firearm??
- Location
- Ottawa/Gatineau
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- Location
- Nova Scotia
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/page-20.html#h-117002
Barrel length
(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is
(a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and
(b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,
but does not include the length of any component, part or accessory including any component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.
It doesn't say ANYWHERE in the Firearms Act/Criminal Code/OIC where or how to measure the BORE DIAMETER. It only says what is considered to considered barrel length in the CC. This DOES NOT include muzzle devices. Courts will refer to this section as a rough guideline in wading through the first couple of charges for the 20+mm charges for a prohib firearm.
Boltgun
CosmiC10R
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Living the Dream in Rural Alberta
Removing anything easily removable for measurement has been the RCMP standard around barrel length for a long time...
So the question is...
Why would an easily removable item be included in this case and not the other?
And yes... I'm aware not having a choke in damages the threads
Buzzballer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Southern Ontario
Thanks Boltgun. I can’t wait to see how this turns out in court.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
The biggest concern I have with this, is it won't occur quickly. I am guessing it will take about 6-12 months for the first gang bangers/organized crime members to get charged. Once those first couple of charges hit the system, it will open slowly then rather quickly. Lets face it, cops get paid good money. the reality is there isn't enough of them because of that.....policing is bloody expensive on tax payers.....I get it! that said, you the "public" wanted higher educated/university trained cops. that costs money....so with that said, if there aren't enough cops out there, the RCMP/Provincial cops/municipal cops DONT HAVE ENOUGH TIME to go after every owner listed on sales orders/records/registrations from the CFO's sales books and CFRO. The low hanging fruit is the "registered" suckers - yes i am one of them. Then someone has to go through ALL of the sales books and start compiling contact lists to reach out to the owners....then they have to investigate when the owners says, sorry sold it and cont remember who I sold it too (that's going to be another issue alone!!). All the while, the number 1 priorities will be required to be looked after.
In the region I was working in, for years the NO1 priority of public opinion was traffic! When I had to do officer annual performance reviews, an officer could have the highest number of arrests and criminal charges but have the lowest number (or even the lowest third on the platoon) of traffic tickets....guess what? I was DIRECTED to tell them to improve their traffic enforcement!
So front line won't be doing it regularly. It'll start with specialized units - intelligence/traditional organized crime/guns and gangs/PWUE/NWEST....and it'll likely occur AFTER they arrest a bad guy and found that he had a PAL and seized shotguns, and then...."hey, he has 2-4 shotguns, lets get them analyzed", the analyst knowing it is belonging to a potential gun charge will lay it all out....VERY MATTER OF FACTLY....then the lead investigator will definitely say - lets do it, see if it sticks when we throw it against the wall......there isn't case law yet. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN! The it will slowly disseminate from there.
Boltgun
I agree that in terms of barrel specs chokes should be removed. What I don’t agree with is CGN claiming their definition of bore is different than what the people who actually wrote this nightmare law say it is. Never in my dreams did I imagine this group to be advocating to have more guns banned. Wouldn’t it be better for the firearms community as a whole to simply ask for clarification as opposed to creating infighting with this attempted “shock and awe” tactic? And let’s be truthful, that’s all this is. A rouse to generate attention.
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Buttermeup
New member
and isn't this a bigger problem for retailers who still have stuff like the derya mk12 up for sale? or other hunting models?
haha love it
vicegripjim
Member
- Location
- Montreal, QC
Give your head a shake. NO ONE here that says our shottys are prohibs now want more bans. We want this ban thrown out. We want older bans thrown out. We're driving this point because the OIC is either a hastily written piece of **** that is now encroaching on a subsection of gun owners that have historically been fine with bans as long as they didn't affect their choice of guns, or it was a deliberately well crafted piece of deception meant to further divide us for when the next blow comes.
**edit: typo
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I beg to differ on the no one wants more bans. Sure seems to be a lot of “fudd” comments being thrown around. There’s better ways to make a point then this ignorant claim. This was neither deliberate nor well crafted. Let’s be honest, Trudeau and his phonies have no idea what a choke is, let alone know how to remove one.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
seriously? the people who wrote the law know better? have you ever said something you could immediate take back os say in another way? Blair got caught here. plain and simple. There is NO definition to a bore in Canadian law! IT IS OPEN to interpretation - BY EVERYONE! they aren't advocating it, they are caught in it!
You need to wake up to this.
Boltgun
- Location
- Ottawa/Gatineau
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I don't think this 20mm rule was an oversight and was done on purpose. Perhaps they are waiting for some obvious and easily prosecutable criminals (not hunters) to use these guns so they get their precedent in place and then to go after hunters and further restrictions?
The worst strategy they could do is to go for hunters right off the bat. Perhaps this is a way around it.
The worst strategy they could do is to go for hunters right off the bat. Perhaps this is a way around it.
