Two guns while big game hunting ??
- Thread starter rifleman338
- Start date
In Ontario it's a little convoluted - it depends what you are hunting and when.
The question was posed to a CO, here is his response:
Thank you for your questions. I will begin by making an assumption – that you hold both a small game licence and a valid licence for deer or moose, depending on which you are hunting.
The actual regulation that sets out these rules is Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting) made under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997. The pertinent sections are 69 and 70:
69. The classes of firearm set out in column 2 of the Table to this section, each consisting of the firearms set out in column 3, are prescribed for the purpose of this Regulation and Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife) as the classes of firearm that a person may use or carry to hunt deer or moose.
70. A person who hunts deer or moose shall not use or carry a firearm unless the firearm is of a class specified for use during the open season applicable to the species, person and area in Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife). O. Reg. 581/99, s. 4.
So, in answer to your questions:
Q1. Is it legal to carry more than one gun at a time?
Generally, yes, as long as each gun being carried is of a type allowed for hunting moose or deer, as the case may be, during the season in which you are carrying the guns. For example, during a shotgun season for deer, you may carry two (or more) shotguns. However, you could not carry a shotgun and a rifle, even if the rifle was a .22 for hunting small game.
There are some exceptions. If you are hunting migratory birds, you may only have one shotgun that is loaded and unencased. You may have a second shotgun, but it must be unloaded and in a case.
If you are hunting with an apprentice hunter, the mentor and apprentice are restricted to a single firearm between them.
Q2. Can one carry a shotgun for small game and a rifle for large game simultaneously?
Yes, provided that it is a deer or moose season that allows for the use of a rifle. (If you are bear hunting, there is no restriction on the types of firearms that you may carry for hunting.)
Q3. Can one carry a 12gauge shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot and have birdshot in their pocket for small game in case the opportunity arises?
Yes, provided that it is a moose or deer season that allows the use of shotguns.
Q4. Can one carry more than one muzzle loader at a time loaded?
Yes, subject to the exception for apprentice hunters mentioned in Q1 above.
Q5. Can one have a .22 cal for small game while bow hunting for large game?
This depends on which season for moose or deer you are hunting in. If it is a moose or deer season that is restricted to the use of bows, then you may not carry a rifle of any type while hunting moose or deer. Same for a deer season that allows the use of shotguns and bows, but not rifles. If it is a moose or deer season that allows the use of rifles as well as bows and you are choosing to hunt the big game species with a bow, you could carry the .22 for small game. If you are hunting bear, you may carry a .22 for small game while hunting bear (as long as you are licensed for bear).
I trust this answers your questions.
Sincerely,
David Critchlow
David Critchlow
Provincial Enforcement Specialist
Policy, Standards and Training Section
Enforcement Branch
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources
The question was posed to a CO, here is his response:
Thank you for your questions. I will begin by making an assumption – that you hold both a small game licence and a valid licence for deer or moose, depending on which you are hunting.
The actual regulation that sets out these rules is Ontario Regulation 665/98 (Hunting) made under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997. The pertinent sections are 69 and 70:
69. The classes of firearm set out in column 2 of the Table to this section, each consisting of the firearms set out in column 3, are prescribed for the purpose of this Regulation and Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife) as the classes of firearm that a person may use or carry to hunt deer or moose.
70. A person who hunts deer or moose shall not use or carry a firearm unless the firearm is of a class specified for use during the open season applicable to the species, person and area in Ontario Regulation 670/98 (Open Seasons — Wildlife). O. Reg. 581/99, s. 4.
So, in answer to your questions:
Q1. Is it legal to carry more than one gun at a time?
Generally, yes, as long as each gun being carried is of a type allowed for hunting moose or deer, as the case may be, during the season in which you are carrying the guns. For example, during a shotgun season for deer, you may carry two (or more) shotguns. However, you could not carry a shotgun and a rifle, even if the rifle was a .22 for hunting small game.
There are some exceptions. If you are hunting migratory birds, you may only have one shotgun that is loaded and unencased. You may have a second shotgun, but it must be unloaded and in a case.
If you are hunting with an apprentice hunter, the mentor and apprentice are restricted to a single firearm between them.
Q2. Can one carry a shotgun for small game and a rifle for large game simultaneously?
Yes, provided that it is a deer or moose season that allows for the use of a rifle. (If you are bear hunting, there is no restriction on the types of firearms that you may carry for hunting.)
Q3. Can one carry a 12gauge shotgun loaded with slugs or buckshot and have birdshot in their pocket for small game in case the opportunity arises?
Yes, provided that it is a moose or deer season that allows the use of shotguns.
Q4. Can one carry more than one muzzle loader at a time loaded?
Yes, subject to the exception for apprentice hunters mentioned in Q1 above.
Q5. Can one have a .22 cal for small game while bow hunting for large game?
This depends on which season for moose or deer you are hunting in. If it is a moose or deer season that is restricted to the use of bows, then you may not carry a rifle of any type while hunting moose or deer. Same for a deer season that allows the use of shotguns and bows, but not rifles. If it is a moose or deer season that allows the use of rifles as well as bows and you are choosing to hunt the big game species with a bow, you could carry the .22 for small game. If you are hunting bear, you may carry a .22 for small game while hunting bear (as long as you are licensed for bear).
I trust this answers your questions.
Sincerely,
David Critchlow
David Critchlow
Provincial Enforcement Specialist
Policy, Standards and Training Section
Enforcement Branch
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources
I've played this game a long time, but never brought more than one rifle with me at the same time. I guess I should have been a bit more clear on my question. Because of the s*#@ plie of grouse we saw this past year, I wanted to tote along my daughters TC Hot Shot in 22lr which weighs in at a smidge over 3lbs in a back scabbord. I have carried this many a time on hikes and never once noticed that it was on my back. Thanks galamb for that info.
If you donen't reload, and want to "carry" a .22, then you could do like a buddy did: He bought one of those chamber inserts for his .308.I
It shoots to minute of grouse at about 30'. Not super accurate, nor is it fast tp reload. You have to eject the insert then pry out a firing pin insert and then push the fired shell out with a nail, screwdriver, or proper sized twig...Then put another shell in the hole, insert the firing pin insert and rechamber.
It was in the $60 to $80 range, but could be wrong. Can't even remember the name, or source
It shoots to minute of grouse at about 30'. Not super accurate, nor is it fast tp reload. You have to eject the insert then pry out a firing pin insert and then push the fired shell out with a nail, screwdriver, or proper sized twig...Then put another shell in the hole, insert the firing pin insert and rechamber.
It was in the $60 to $80 range, but could be wrong. Can't even remember the name, or source
The more I read this crap the more I can't stand this country.
I should be able to walk in the bush with a loaded Glock G19 (with 17 round mags), a loaded M4 (with 30 round mags) and a loaded 30 cal. bolt action rifle if I choose to carry it all. Anything short of that is... well, tyranny. It's that simple when it comes right down to it.
These rules aren't gun rules..... They are in place to help ensure fair chase hunting..... Gun laws are a completely different matter...
I often carry 2 guns when bear hunting. Used to be 3 but now I just shoot grouse with my bear guns. I carry a sxs 45/70 while walking and have either a 458 wm or 25/06 over my back. This coming spring I'm going to assemble a 300 Wm to take place of the second gun
Ok, I'll bite: how do these rules support fair chase hunting?
At least in Ontario our hunting laws are very convoluted.
Sometimes you can see (maybe) what the intention was - for example, if you are carrying a rifle of any description while hunting deer in bow season, you might be "tempted" to shoot at the deer, even if it's a 22, so the law about no rifles/shotguns during a big game "bow hunt" removes that temptation.
However, most were probably written by someone who had a vague understanding at best of what is actually going on in the woods.
I point to the "shotgun only" deer hunts. Ok, it kinda makes sense that these are in rural farming areas and there might have been some worry about a 30.06 round carrying into Farmer Joe's field and hitting one of his cows - yes, less likely (back when the law was written) that buckshot, a pumpkin ball or a Foster slug even making it to the fence line - but now a premium sabot will travel great distance, but the laws were never changed to recognize that.
But that's not even the dumb part. In exactly the same area, if you are hunting "bears", in a season that overlaps the deer "shotgun" hunt, you can use a center fire rifle.
So while it's too dangerous to use a 243 for deer because of a possible stray bullet, you can use your 300 WM for bears.
I guess the lawmakers figure that bear hunters are better "shots" than deer hunters.
And again. If I'm out the last week of November "hunting bears" I can carry a CF rifle, a shotgun, my bow, black powder rifle and even my 22 because there are pretty much no restrictions on what I can use for "bear hunting", but if I'm hunting Deer in the late bow and I have anything other than my bow with me, then I am violating the "deer hunting regulations" which state that since nothing but "bows" are legal to hunt deer at that time, I can't carry anything else.
In the first part of that, if I was out "bear hunting" and happened to have my bow with me as well as a rifle and Bambi walked by, and I had a tag, even though the season for deer was "open", technically, if I shot it with my bow (legal) I would/could be charged because I had a rifle with me (illegal because NOW I was deer hunting in a bow only season) unless I first unloaded my rifle and then secured it in a case etc and "stored it", before I bow hunted the deer.
Sometimes you can see (maybe) what the intention was - for example, if you are carrying a rifle of any description while hunting deer in bow season, you might be "tempted" to shoot at the deer, even if it's a 22, so the law about no rifles/shotguns during a big game "bow hunt" removes that temptation.
However, most were probably written by someone who had a vague understanding at best of what is actually going on in the woods.
I point to the "shotgun only" deer hunts. Ok, it kinda makes sense that these are in rural farming areas and there might have been some worry about a 30.06 round carrying into Farmer Joe's field and hitting one of his cows - yes, less likely (back when the law was written) that buckshot, a pumpkin ball or a Foster slug even making it to the fence line - but now a premium sabot will travel great distance, but the laws were never changed to recognize that.
But that's not even the dumb part. In exactly the same area, if you are hunting "bears", in a season that overlaps the deer "shotgun" hunt, you can use a center fire rifle.
So while it's too dangerous to use a 243 for deer because of a possible stray bullet, you can use your 300 WM for bears.
I guess the lawmakers figure that bear hunters are better "shots" than deer hunters.
And again. If I'm out the last week of November "hunting bears" I can carry a CF rifle, a shotgun, my bow, black powder rifle and even my 22 because there are pretty much no restrictions on what I can use for "bear hunting", but if I'm hunting Deer in the late bow and I have anything other than my bow with me, then I am violating the "deer hunting regulations" which state that since nothing but "bows" are legal to hunt deer at that time, I can't carry anything else.
In the first part of that, if I was out "bear hunting" and happened to have my bow with me as well as a rifle and Bambi walked by, and I had a tag, even though the season for deer was "open", technically, if I shot it with my bow (legal) I would/could be charged because I had a rifle with me (illegal because NOW I was deer hunting in a bow only season) unless I first unloaded my rifle and then secured it in a case etc and "stored it", before I bow hunted the deer.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
The only problem with that is getting the wrong thing up the spout by accident and slapping some poor critter with an anemic load.
Would be a great use for a 22LR pistol. Alas...
Indeed. I'm guilty. When I was younger I often deer hunter with a .22 slung over my back for rabbits and grouse. Even ran into a CO once (maybe more) who didn't even bring it up. So even in their ranks they must find it convoluted or ridiculous. Anyway, I just use a Hammond game getter now. Much lighter.
this has been my approach as well. all it took was a summer of practice. I started with gallon milk jugs at 30 paces and worked down to pop cans. I don't get all the grouse I see but we only kill em for camp snacks, cut into nuggets, rolled in shake n bake and fast fried in butter and green onion..... mmmmmmmm .
otherwise, I just go for a cruise on the quad up the hill out back with the 22 if I'm looking for a few to stock up on
Regarding ON laws post. I would bet that if I was out bow hunting for moose in an archery only season and had a .22lr in the truck for plinking road warrior grouse to and from hunting spots, they could probably nab me for that somehow. Silliness
