Type 81 another importer

Horilka said:
Yeah right, that's my mission - to convince you. That rifle was gone same day I got her, I use tools when there's a need to, not when it's as obvious as Tower of Pisa. I'm not saying your rifle is not straight, I'm saying mine was not, several of my buddies were not, and many ppl here reported the same issue and feel free to watch youtube videos that report the same. Now I know some had either straight rifles or had no issues with slight misalignment. However deniying the obvious issue reported by many users is a matter of faith or stupidity. Both options are covered by old saying - "You spit in his face and he keeps saying - God's dew!", so I'm removing myself from this discussion. I got my answers.
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You seem to be taking some umbrage with my posts to you, please do not take them as a personal affront. I am not on any mission to convince you, however you have confirmed that you only performed a quick visual assessment. Your faith in your eyeballing skills is impressive, I prefer to rely on hard data, i.e. measurements, to form my opinion.

Posting a pic using deckboards as a visual reference while chest thumping about a major in measuring, I am almost embarrassed for you. I have seen plenty of vids and pics proclaiming bent rifles, they are noticeably devoid of actual numbers and use questionable methods of verification. Much like your pic of an unstripped rifle against a visually distracting background. I do like the deck though, I would have gone with a lighter stain to reveal more of the grain but that is just me.
 
klaus enuff said:
Speaking as an owner of 4 type 81 folders, I feel the "issue" of bent rifles is overblown. I have yet to seen any pics proving anything as bad as what people are worried about.
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Overblown? Proving? I wished you would've offered to trade your non-issue folder for one of my severe bent one. That would be all the proof you need.

If we continue to accept poor qc for a $1000 gun then they will continue to make them that way.
 
I think people would be interested to know what I found taking other measurements, specifically the internal receiver dimensions and geometry of parts in relation to each other. I will not muddy the waters any further by posting my results/opinions but suffice it to say there is variation between the 4 specific examples in my possession. It is helpful to keep in mind that these rifles are built to AK specs and tolerances, emphasis on tolerances. These guns were built with slop in mind, look somewhere else if you want aerospace quality fitup, this aint the gun platform for you.

As an owner of 4 (plural) of these rifles, that I have gone over in fairly close detail, I feel somewhat qualified to speak on them. If my lack of vids and pics translates into a lack of credibilty feel free to dismiss my opinion, it is only my 2 cents and another day on CGN.
 
klaus enuff said:
You seem to be taking some umbrage with my posts to you, please do not take them as a personal affront. I am not on any mission to convince you, however you have confirmed that you only performed a quick visual assessment. Your faith in your eyeballing skills is impressive, I prefer to rely on hard data, i.e. measurements, to form my opinion.

Posting a pic using deckboards as a visual reference while chest thumping about a major in measuring, I am almost embarrassed for you. I have seen plenty of vids and pics proclaiming bent rifles, they are noticeably devoid of actual numbers and use questionable methods of verification. Much like your pic of an unstripped rifle against a visually distracting background. I do like the deck though, I would have gone with a lighter stain to reveal more of the grain but that is just me.
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I'm sorry if my comments were over the line. No picture can be a proof unless it's a pictures of tools measuring something, true. My picture was a quick visual reference, there were no need to measure if you hold something in your hands and it's way far from straight. I did not have to prove anything to TI, they refunded me though did not acknowledged the issue. Drawing lines on pictures don't work. Because lenses distort (that's why I positioned rifle on center) Illustration below is familiar to anyone who has sufficient education or interest in how optics work. I'm happy for you if you have straight rifle. I returned mine same day and as I said I know enough ppl who did the same. So many ppl could not be mistaken. You can't simply disregard so many reports. That's my point.

lens-distortion-graphic.jpg


As for AK tolerances. I've handled more Soviet AKs than most ppl here, none of them was misaligned from the factory as Type 81s I saw. So maybe it's "Chinese AK tolerances"? Or just "Chinese tolerances"?
 
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Horilka said:
I did not have to prove anything to TI, they refunded me though did not acknowledged the issue.
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You must have been the first few to return it bcos by the time it got to me, I had to send pics and measurements before I could send mine back the rifle (only) for replacement and when they received it, they said they couldn't guarantee the replacement wouldn't be the same (this speaks volume about how serious the issue was , they couldnt find one that wasnt bent, are you kidding? ) so they asked me to send the mags in as well to get a full refund. what a hassle.

I'm glad to hear others got 4 not bent ones, I couldn't get one. just the luck of the draw.
 
my recently purchased type 81 was also corkscrewed. We as humans can distinguish a straight line from a wavy one fairly easy just by eye sight. If it’s out by eye sight there’s really no reason to pull out the micrometers and straight edges. I deal with fine measurements on a daily bases being in the automotive field so I have come to pick up imperfections with ease. I knew mine would be bent before I ordered it. I have yet to see anything mass produced come out of China without flaws. Their tolerances and workmanship aren’t those of us North Americans or Europeans. I see it daily with automotive parts and their failure rate in the aftermarket world. I tend to not buy anything made in China for this exact reason, but I really wanted an “AK” looking rifle and the type 81 was the only option. It is what it is, mine was a newer version and still twisted lol. All I can do is disassemble it this winter and re machine the parts to make it straight. Still shoots straight as I can hit targets at 200 yards open sights. After all it is just a spray and pray rifle haha. But yea I can see how we get upset since we would expect a straight rifle for $1000 plus taxes, I do anyway. Still baffles me how a company doesn’t take any pride in their workmanship for their products that is destined for civilians. For me this rifle will never be a showpiece or collector, it just a hungry beast that eats up the stock piles of old surplus ammo haha. Enjoy your type 81’s, nobody will know it’s twisted till you tell them or they own it.
 
klaus enuff said:
You seem to be taking some umbrage with my posts to you, please do not take them as a personal affront. I am not on any mission to convince you, however you have confirmed that you only performed a quick visual assessment. Your faith in your eyeballing skills is impressive, I prefer to rely on hard data, i.e. measurements, to form my opinion.

Posting a pic using deckboards as a visual reference while chest thumping about a major in measuring, I am almost embarrassed for you. I have seen plenty of vids and pics proclaiming bent rifles, they are noticeably devoid of actual numbers and use questionable methods of verification. Much like your pic of an unstripped rifle against a visually distracting background. I do like the deck though, I would have gone with a lighter stain to reveal more of the grain but that is just me.
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Wow! Your comments in this thread have literally been nothing but stupid stacked on top of stupid! Congratulations for achieving the arrogant prick award on CGN for this month.
 
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Does anyone have a picture of a rifle being held against a machinist's straight edge?

That would be considered actual photo evidence.
 
Does anyone of you have one for sale? Preferably a "straight" fixed stock model haha

I note that Tactical Imports is sold out of both types, yet still ran an ad for them in this month's issue of Calibre magazine...?

Cheers
John
 
Deckard said:
Why would anyone accept any bent rifle? How could any vendor sell one?
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Whats the big deal if its bent? thats the real question u gotta ask urself. People are buying these rifles because they want a Type 81... and if type 81s are known to have sloppy tolerances including a little misalignment (AKA the bend); Isnt that all part of the authenticity? Its like buying a 858 that suffers from the gremlin... or a Nambu that shoots without pulling the trigger. Its all part of the nostalgia for owning that particular kind of gun.

The bent Type 81s shoot perfectly fine, and they dont appear to be wearing out abnormally or posing any threat to the shooters safety.

The bends are hard to notice unless you hold the gun in your hands and look down it, OR if you can manage to take a picture that does it justice.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
Does anyone have a picture of a rifle being held against a machinist's straight edge?

That would be considered actual photo evidence.
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The evidence is everywhere for all to see and hear. Theres been photos in Tactical Imports thread with lines photo shopped, pictures of strings running down the length of the gun.... I even seen photos of it being done with a laser.

EVEN Tactical Imports themselves will tell you over the phone that they cannot guarantee you a straight rifle!

Im a Machinist apprentice, and I took an hour of my very busy time to MILL A FREAKING 5 DEGREE TAPER IN HARDENED STEEL to the back of my side rail so that my optic would line up with the rifles bore. WHY THE FUK WOULD I DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF MY RIFLE WAS FUKKING STRAIGHT ?????!!! The rail angle and me bolting it to the side of my Type 81 SA folder can clearly be seen in my scope mounting video below! and when it came time to sight in the POSP optic, the windage was surprisingly close to point of impact. my 5 degree calculation was just about right.


GnutzGuy mentions he too had a fairly bent folder at one point in his video.

 
I'd rather own a bent t81 that is still safe to shoot then one of the newer m305 rifles with the metal injected bolts that blow up in your face!
 
I will apologize for the sarcasm in my comments but I stand by them. There is so much variance not just between specific rifles but by the varying methods used by all involved. I am positive many of us could examine the same rifle and all come to different opinions.

I was able to produce/influence different numbers not just by clamping and measuring off different receiver surfaces but also by moving the position of the clamps.and altering clamping pressure. Also present was the difficulty of ensuring that I was measuring to the outermost point on the barrel. At most the worst rifle would require a nudge of about an eigth of an inch to bring to centre, by my measuring and simple methods.

I wanted an AK, short getting a Valmet this is the closest I can get. I knew what to expect from a bent and stamped steel receiver, I am very happy with what I got. It would be nice if it were 2 to 3 hundred bucks cheaper but that is life.
 
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