Type 97 Classification Issues - PART TWO

[RobAK]

No, it's not confusing.
It's quite logical in fact; Short T97 = allowed, Longer T97 = prohib.
Get it ?

So by your assessment my Type 97A which is legally secured in my home, and continues to go to the range with me under my ATT is a prohib? There is only one number left on their books and it doesn't cover either barrel lengths previously sold legally, or the most recent ones from Can Am.

The problem with this thread is the 10% of it's content is fact, and the rest is wild guessing. Probably best to not add any more speculation.

 

[Sniper1]

I was being ironic. There's no logic with the rcmp's position.

At the end of July, I will celebrate my first year of T97 order.
Will leave the money to Canam until some official statement is made.

 

[Clobbersauras]

No, it's not confusing.
It's quite logical in fact; Short T97 = allowed, Longer T97 = prohib.
Get it ?

Nope - you are wrong. Sorry dude. AFAIK all T97's that were legally purchased are still restricted, NOT PROHIB. The RCMP has made it impossible to transfer them. Just like they did with the Walther G22.

EDIT: Sorry, I mised the ironicness of your post.

 

[kevin.wall]

Does anyone know how many rifles are in the shipment being held?

 

[Paul Morrison]

A lot.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

I think I'm gonna phone van loans office again. Does the cbsa have a lawful reason to not release these rifles?

 

[j-man]

I think I'm gonna phone van loans office again. Does the cbsa have a lawful reason to not release these rifles?

I think the reason is that the RCMP currently have them 'under review'. Until the horsemen are done looking at them, CBSA can say their hands are tied.

It's just all so convenient.

 

[Wild_Thing]

I think that the bottom line here is that some industrious bureaucrat(possibly sensing an election was upcoming) saw an opportunity and seized it. We know what the Liberal's stance on military looking semis is.
The question is did the RCMP screw up when they initially allowed them in as restricted or is this political shenanigans? Either way it reeks and if I were a betting man, I'd say that they will try to drag this out until the next election, hoping to bury it if the LPC wins.
Everyone with a horse in this race should be writing their MPs, Van Loan, the RCMP, etc. and make sure they know that you know.

 

[squig808]

Everyone with a horse in this race should be writing their MPs, Van Loan, the RCMP, etc. and make sure they know that you know.

Is there a form letter I can personalize and mail to my MP?

Honestly I'm not %100 up to date on this, but I'm not sure anyone is. I'm just waiting patiently. My MP is Brent Rathgeber (Conservative). I'm hoping he'll be somewhat sympathetic...

I'm sure a few letters are posted, but there are thousands of T97 posts on this forum. Also is this what CanAm wants?

 

[shootemup]

I understand that a number of MPs have been contacted in regards to this issue and they are "looking" into it, including my own. I'm thinking they are getting stalled by the libtard disciples in the CFC so follow up with your MP. Write a letter or at least send an email. Ask for a meeting...you won't get one for at least a month, but the receptionist will want to know what the issue is. Tell the staffer it is about the Type 97A rifle and the RCMP. If you have already done all of this, call or write for a followup and keep the issue alive, reminding your MP that their job is to go to bat for you. Get the executive of your club to meet with your MP (as ours is) to convey that this issue is a problem for a significant number of people. DO IT NOW!

 

[Gothmog]

I think that the bottom line here is that some industrious bureaucrat(possibly sensing an election was upcoming) saw an opportunity and seized it.

We know what the Liberal's stance on military looking semis is.
The question is did the RCMP screw up when they initially allowed them in as restricted or is this political shenanigans? Either way it reeks and if I were a betting man, I'd say that they will try to drag this out until the next election, hoping to bury it if the LPC wins.

Some interesting questions and speculations.

There does appear to be some organized resistance to allowing any semi automatic rifles to go unregistered. Where exactly this resistance originates is anyone's guess, but we know the likely outcome if these people succeed.

This is not just about the T97, IMHO.

Everyone with a horse in this race should be writing their MPs, Van Loan, the RCMP, etc. and make sure they know that you know.

Truer words were never spoken ... and pretty well ever member of CGN has a horse in this race. Contact your MP's, they need to know how important this issue is, and they will measure it by the strength of our response.

 

[390dakota]

 

[michaelsabre]

Peter Van Loan is a MP from the electoral district of York—Simcoe.

Any CGNs from district of York—Simcoe? A face to face meeting with him?

 

[Gothmog]

Remember, all MPs need the message.

While its nice if you can meet with a Cabinet Minister, the more broadly our message gets across the better. It shows the strength of our motivation.

All MPs are important, even opposition MPs.

I have read with some interest of the conversations/communications some here have had with Liberal or NDP or BQ members. We stand to gain by making them uncomfortable and forcing them to defend the indefensible. We make them aware of our resolve to fight for our rights. We make them understand that what they propose as policy is unreasonable and that we will fight back with every legal and political means at our disposal.

By sharing our views with them we will create a new context for them, even if they are not aware of it or do not appear to have changed their point of view.

Just do it ...

 

[Fremen]

I will be requesting a meeting with my MP and need to have paper work that I can bring with me. Can any one help?

 

[Savage]

I think that the bottom line here is that some industrious bureaucrat(possibly sensing an election was upcoming) saw an opportunity and seized it. We know what the Liberal's stance on military looking semis is.

Not quite the reasons that the rifles have been held and the those that are registered have very little to do with political motivation more on the aspect of the letter of the law

The question is did the RCMP screw up when they initially allowed them in as restricted

Yes there was a lack of Due Diligence on be half of the RCMP for not properly inspecting these rifles prior to issuing a FRT number .The RCMP allowed a RCMP NWEST officer to inspect and authorize the the FRT Number based on his inspection of the firearm in Question in Vancouver and a sample was not sent to the RCMP Firearms lab in Ottawa for inspection

Either way it reeks and if I were a betting man, I'd say that they will try to drag this out until the next election, hoping to bury it if the LPC wins.

Yes it does stink as far as dragging it out till the next election that's a non issue. IMO It is a dead horse they will not reverse there standing on this rifle even if the CPC forms the next majority government.

Everyone with a horse in this race should be writing their MPs, Van Loan, the RCMP, etc. and make sure they know that you know.

Yes I implore people to write to the PM ,MP and Peter Van Loan and express your concerns .

 

[Paul Morrison]

Peter Van Loan is a MP from the electoral district of York—Simcoe.

The sharon gun club is in his riding.

Not quite the reasons that the rifles have been held and the those that are registered have very little to do with political motivation more on the aspect of the letter of the law

Which is precisely why this issue needs to go to the courts.

Hasselwander is not a blank cheque for the police, it has specific requirements, which if unproven would undo the classification. That test by the SCC has never been used to our benefit. This would be a good case.

IMO It is a dead horse they will not reverse there standing on this rifle even if the CPC forms the next majority government.

Which is why we need to use the courts. If we can establish a precedent that the RCMP has to obey the law, it would be a big win.

 

[michaelsabre]

Not quite the reasons that the rifles have been held and the those that are registered have very little to do with political motivation more on the aspect of the letter of the law

Tell me that - Marstar and CanAm had problem with law at same time?

 

[Paul Morrison]

The law is not on the RCMP's side. I've read the three hasselwander decisions very closely, its very clear to me that the type 97, unless there is something completely amiss will not meet the criteria of the test established by the trial judge and affirmed by the supreme court.

That test would reclassify a firearm that was semi-automatic as a prohibited firearm if it could be converted full automatic:

1) in a 'reasonable' amount of time (there is significant case law on this point, mostly dealing with deactivated firearms, in those cases, the transition to a working firearm in less than 15 minutes).

2) with parts that are readily available (in hasselwander the firearm could be made to fire full automatic with an FA trigger group available by mail order and at gunshows within 100 km of where hasselwander lived [in Ontario], or a trigger group from a replica firearm that was widely available would also make the firearm full auto).

3) By someone of reasonable skill (ie. not working in the RCMP Firearms section or a gunsmith).

If that's the test, I think they lose in court.

 

[Throttle_monkey1]

I think the reason is that the RCMP currently have them 'under review'. Until the horsemen are done looking at them, CBSA can say their hands are tied.

It's just all so convenient.

I remember reading that the RCMP had made their ruling long ago. If so, why is the CBSA holding the rifles? If canada ammo doesn't hold prohib licences, then the shipment has to be refused. If they do hold the licences, then the cbsa should still release the rifles to canam.

From what I understand, they are holding them. The only reason could be that the RCMP have not made an official decision, and this is what we need to pressure our MPs on.