HaliGunian
Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Thank you for that info, I had always thought it was the other way around.
You just made my Monday.
Last edited:
Update On Ontario Restricted Transfer Times
- Thread starter pygmalion2020
- Start date
Thank you for that info, I had always thought it was the other way around.
You just made my Monday.
Slipnslide
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Yeah thats how it works. Generally the transfer takes a while after initiation (if your in Ontario, way shorter in other provinces). If you agreed to email updates you and the seller (if private) will get emails approving the transfer and now the seller calls in to get an ATT to take it to the post office and ship to you. I think retailers have an online system.
Theres really no reason they wouldn't charge in full, once they initiate the transfer they can't reverse it. If they refuse to send the gun after approval they will have some explaining to do to the RCMP.
They can reverse a transfer. Private sellers can too.
Slipnslide
CGN Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Huh, I honestly didn't know that. Does it require approval from the other party?
I have done it, no approval required.
Its still mine until the transfer is complete.
RCMP doesn't care if money has changed hands or not.
Its still mine until the transfer is complete.
RCMP doesn't care if money has changed hands or not.
That's quite discouraging from a private sale perspective, as the seller can screw the buyer.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
They charge in full because that is how they protect themself against fraud. Once they charge in full, the buyer is now the de facto owner.
While the seller calls into to get an ATT, or uses one they already have, in theory the buyer be waiting until they have a registration certificate before taking possession. Retailers can apply for a transfer through an online tool that does not require input from the buyer. This is one day going to blow up in the RCMPs face in a huge way.
In any event, if you initiate a transfer process, which includes transferring registration, the process is not complete until you have transferred possession finally to the buyer. If at any reason the seller has cause to abandon the transfer, the RCMP will happily do so. Yes they will ask questions, and in a case of suspected fraud, or some public safety concern, the RCMP will typically thank you for abandoning the transfer and reporting it. ANything they do in their computer system can easily be undone.
If there is no public safety complaint, and it is simply a breakdown in the terms of the contract, the RCMP will simply tell you this a civil matter for the courts. All they are concerned with is trying to keep the registration record up to date with who actually has the firearm.
No. Nor should it. The seller has a legal obligation to ensure that the transfer is being conducted properly. One of the requirements is for the seller to refrain from transferring possession of the firearm if they have a reason to believe that the buyer is unauthorized or otherwise should not possess the firearm. Such reason to believe can arise at any point during the transfer process, regardless of what the CFO may or may not have approved. Even IF the CFO has approved the transfer, and the buyer shows up to take possession and is inebriated, the seller, by law, must refuse to give the firearm to the buyer. They would then either wait for the buyer to sober up and try again, or call the CFO back to void the transfer. IF the buyer shows up clearly disturbed out of his tree acting like a lunatic threatening to kill his ex wife, when the seller not only should refuse the transfer, call the CFO to void the transfer, but should also call in a public safety complaint.
Well technically its not yours as soon as you take the buyers money, but thats a feature of contract law.
Your legal requirement to transfer possession is regardless of who the de facto owner is. If its in your possession, you must transfer it in accordance with the law. And to that end you are absolutely correct that the RCMP doesn't care about who has who's money.
Both parties have the opportunity to screw the other. All trade is based on trust. The trouble is that the Canadian Firearms Program erodes trust, and displaces moral accountability from the parties onto an incompetent state apparatus, which increases the probability of honest people being screwed.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
With almost 200 restricted transfers each and every single day, if the CFP stopped processing transfers, it would only be a matter of time before it turned in to a politcal chit show and court cases were initiated. Before long, people would just stop bothering asking for transfers...
The seller can screw the buyer in any transaction that's not face-to-face or done through escrow. As soon as the buyer sends money to the seller, this one can disappear without a trace.
Actually, the way transactions are made on CGN's EE, there is no difference between the sale of a restricted or a non-restricted or a pair of shoes. If the transfer was registered (or at least started) before the buyer sends money, it would at least confirm that the seller has the gun in question. The transfer could be reversed (or stopped, if incomplete) if the buyer doesn't pay up, so there would be no risk to the seller, but there would be small reduction of risk for the buyer. It would make more sense than what is done currently (pay before transfer is initiated).
It wouldn't be an actual fraud protection system, or at least not an effective one. To really get that, there would need to be some sort of trusted escrow service.
I believe that there will be a lot of borrowing going on, doesn't matter when the transfer gets done.
They wont like that at all.
I started 3 transfers just before things started to get shut down / slowed down, all ON-to-ON. Two got approval last week, after about 3 weeks wait, and I'm still waiting on the third.
There have been times when things were "normal" and you had to wait longer than that for Ontario transfers, so the CFO office is obviously still working away trying to keep up.
There have been times when things were "normal" and you had to wait longer than that for Ontario transfers, so the CFO office is obviously still working away trying to keep up.
