Using cheap trap loads for defence?

Whenever I'm shooting my 12ga. for fun I use 2.75" or 3" BBB or BB shells. At around 15 to 18 paces, they'll completely detonate a milk jug or 2L pop bottle full of water. That being said, thin plastic retaining a couple litres of water isn't exactly ballistics gelatin. I have yet to make up a dummy w/wet newspaper and a sweater on. However, I still think that the higher mass-per-pellet of BBB would give better penetration and have more knockdown power than #4 or #6 birdshot (although definetely less of both than #4 buck or 00 buck, but that's not my point). If I were faced with a home-defense situation and slugs or buckshot were not available to me, I'd be satisfied with BBB or BB loads. If I were faced with using #4 or #6 (neither of which I have in my house at the moment) or my full-auto paintball gun, I'd go with the paintball gun :D For that matter, why is it necessary to use deadly force in the first place? Unless I know he's got a gun and intends to shoot me, I would avoid at all costs the hassles involved with using a firearm. A paintball gun would be just as effective at short range for causing pain, if not more effective due to the high ROF. Just my 2 cents.
 
If someone intrudes into my house it's not a death sentence, it's suicide!

I found the above from another thread, not mine but I do love it.
 
I have 2 00 Buck's within easy reach of my bed that's my first pick birdshot at close range i wouldn't wan't to be on the reciveing end of. yesterday i shot a big truck oil filter with a 20 gauge full choke 2 3/4 71/2 birdshot at 15 feet none wen't through but it done one noumber on it and i would say if they had no gun would stop someone easy. a second in the same spot put some through.
 
sixty9santa said:
If someone intrudes into my house it's not a death sentence, it's suicide!

I found the above from another thread, not mine but I do love it.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6. Once the jury hears a tear jerker about how you feared for your family's life, etc. I think even in Kanada they'd have a hard time returning "guilty" as a verdict ;)
 
When in an emergency situation and all you have is birdshot, you can make a cut fully around the outer hull just above the brass thus making a frangible slug.
 
Spitzer said:
When in an emergency situation and all you have is birdshot, you can make a cut fully around the outer hull just above the brass thus making a frangible slug.
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Does this actually work? I doubt I'd try it myself :eek: Would the separated hull & payload make it out of the chamber and thru the forcing cone?
 
A trapper/prospector told me that pouring a little wax into the shell and re-crimping (he was probably using paper shells) would make a fairly hard hitting round out of birdshot.

I never tried it. I just buy slugs.
 
I am with geologist, I have 500 rnds of federal 1.25oz 3" slugs in my ammo can..... lets see the intruder stop 1.25 ounces of lead :)

I live in a basement, so just shoot his testicles off and the slug would hit concrete foundation....
 
poweredbybeer said:
Does this actually work? I doubt I'd try it myself :eek: Would the separated hull & payload make it out of the chamber and thru the forcing cone?
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Yes, and yes. It's been years since I've done it, but I shot a 6" poplar tree once and punched a big hole through it. It's better to use improved cylinder or open choke. Emergencies only.
 
geologist said:
A trapper/prospector told me that pouring a little wax into the shell and re-crimping (he was probably using paper shells) would make a fairly hard hitting round out of birdshot.

I never tried it. I just buy slugs.
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Teddy Roosevelt used to do this in Africa I heard it worked pretty good considering. :D
 
Spitzer said:
Yes, and yes. It's been years since I've done it, but I shot a 6" poplar tree once and punched a big hole through it. It's better to use improved cylinder or open choke. Emergencies only.
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Cool :D Maybe I will try it sometime...
 
I shot a cow once with a broken leg that fell through some ice. I only had my shotgun, with 7 1/2's, cylinder bore. Shot the cow at about 15', the closest I was going to go to a cow that was floundering in a hole in the ice with a broken leg. Shot it in the head. It was very very dead... very. We cut the head open to examine the wound. I was surprised to say that it almost but not quite went all the way through its head. The hole which was quite large tapered with some pellets tattooing the skin around the entry wound, some pellets remaining mid hole and some, in a large clump going in very deep. penetrated a good deal of bone during the process but kinda chewed it up to be more exact. Not a clean penetration but a large ragged hole. We managed to loop a line around the then still cow, and drag it out of the ice with the front end loader on the tractor. Kinda a weird experience to tell the truth.
 
echo4lima said:
Bean Bags...... duh....

bean_bag_rounds.jpg


Margo Supplies Ltd
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I hate that we need a end user certificate to get those things. I can go buy 9mm hollowpoints. Armor piercing 7.62x54mm. and 12 gauge 3" 15 pellet 00 buck. But I cant even buy beenbag rounds. How stupid is that.

I did just get a job with MB Conservation as a Fire Ranger though. Maybe I can convince my boss........
 
The only real benefit of using a target/birdshot load is that getting you convicted would be much more difficult. They cannot say that you planned to kill an intruder if you 'grabbed whatever was near'. If you have access to both 00 and birdshot, and you shoot the guy with birdshot, its going to be harder for them to convict.

Also, remember all of us guys with 'tactical' shotguns, you want to shoot an intruder (God forbid) with something that is not black or scary looking. That way when the prosecutor is questioning you on the stand, picks up your shotgun and says: "Is THIS the gun you used" he's holding up something that's got beautiful walnut on it, and all kinds of nice fancy scrollwork, like an antique, not a 'killing machine'.
 
Kill ?

echo4lima said:
No One is trained to wound. LEO's/Mil/Corr. all taught that if you need to shoot, you shoot to kill, that means CM shots until they no longer pose a threat, that is the only reason to ever shoot another human being. To assume anything less is ridiculously naive...

Purpose of the bean bag as a first round is basically a 'freebie'. If you go to court because you killed an intruder, they may look a little more favorable on you because to tried to 'go easy' on the guy with the first a less-than-lethal round. You look like you gave the guy a chance and had no choice but to elevate to the next level of DF... If this was any other non-communist country, you would not have to have a 'CYA' round first, a clean justifieable kill is ok...Here they try and hang ya...
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LEO'S are taught not to "kill" but to "stop". Mil are taught to "stop" and "wound" in conventional war to take out 3 opponents (2 to carry the wounded guy). Mil shoots to "stop" In the current wars as the neanderthal enemy doesnt look after its wounded.
A .762 to the hip will drop a goblin but the arms and hands are still available to fight for a while so "stop" becomes "kill" - the sooner the better.
 
7.5 birdshot seems silly. yes, close-range head wounds can kill, just ask Tookie Williams... but id hate to have to stake my life on it. with winter jackets/layered clothing or a leather jacket i cant see it doing very much damage at 10-15+ feet.

this isnt the states where you can casually shoot someone breaking into your home. in this country if you are using a firearm for defense you are doing it because there is an armed intruder, your life is in danger and you have no other recourse. in that case, dont do it half-assed - get some buckshot.
 
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