Wanstall's finally responds;

[6MT]

I don't believe for a second that the actions of a dozen or so internet egomaniacs who act like the spoiled brats they are, will do anything to damage a retailer's (or a wholesaler's) reputation. These keyboard warriors talk a big talk. Their whining exploits on a forum that has long since garnered a reputation for fostering their behaviors, is obscure at best. A retailer's core business model is not based upon the stylists on cgn or any other forum. The majority of their clientele don't read this tripe. Nor do they care what a dozen or so denizens think or say.

And to let this idiocy continue for as long as it has, just proves that the owners of this forum condone this behavior. Are a few angry about the situation? Of course. But to have this crap all over these forums for the past week is just getting tiresome. I've kept my opinion to myself. But to those who jump on these things with the fervour of an eight year old in a toy store....please give it a rest. The entire world is sick of the b1tching. And you do look silly.

 

[D 23]

I don't believe for a second that the actions of a dozen or so internet egomaniacs who act like the spoiled brats they are, will do anything to damage a retailer's (or a wholesaler's) reputation. These keyboard warriors talk a big talk. Their whining exploits on a forum that has long since garnered a reputation for fostering their behaviors, is obscure at best. A retailer's core business model is not based upon the stylists on cgn or any other forum. The majority of their clientele don't read this tripe. Nor do they care what a dozen or so denizens think or say.

So true.

 

[Hitzy]

So these soldiers that were in the same unit as him are saying that while the fighting was going on Rick was back at the bar picking up chicks and telling stories?
Sorry, I don't take much interest in those types of threads so have read nothing other than what has spilled over into these threads.

I wanted an M10x just like everyone else, just not going to support a business that conducts itself the way M+M has over the last while.

If you wish to continue PM me and I'd be happy to let you try to educate me.

It's worse then that, like he was never even in the US "Secret Special Forces" as he claims, let alone Vietnam.
He spouted all that #### off on CGN, got researched and exposed. Now he only spouts it to the gullibles in his shop.
I remember a few threads...one where he claimed the "little g***s would do backflips when you shot them with a .45 because it's so powerful" and another where "cows would fly 20 feet when you shot them with a .50" again because it's so powerful.
A brief lesson in physics shut him up, but it literally had to be explained like you were talking to a 10 year old for him to get it. Apparently he knew more about physics then Newton...
I would never buy or believe anything from that guy.

 

[andrew3081]

Cr5, you sure have a lot of opinions not supported by facts about everything.

 

[cr5]

It's worse then that, like he was never even in the US "Secret Special Forces" as he claims, let alone Vietnam.
He spouted all that #### off on CGN, got researched and exposed. Now he only spouts it to the gullibles in his shop.
I remember a few threads...one where he claimed the "little g***s would do backflips when you shot them with a .45 because it's so powerful" and another where "cows would fly 20 feet when you shot them with a .50" again because it's so powerful.
A brief lesson in physics shut him up, but it literally had to be explained like you were talking to a 10 year old for him to get it. Apparently he knew more about physics then Newton...
I would never buy or believe anything from that guy.

Lol, now I need to find those posts, that's pathetic. He must have been drunk out of his mind telling stories like that.
I've never read any of those posts but if true puts him in a whole new light.

Cr5, you sure have a lot of opinions not supported by facts about everything.

Like what?
Opinions are what people have based on the information available to them. I base my opinions on what I've read that can be verified and also on my own personal experience.
Every person on a forum is entitled to their own opinion whether it's right or wrong. If you think I'm wrong then point it out and educate me with your facts. As I've already shown BFiles I'm more than willing to listen to other opinions without getting mad just because their opinion is different than mine. I value the opinions of many of the others on this forum, I didn't get mad reading Hitzy's post, instead I am now looking to find these posts and if true my opinion will be changed, that's how we learn new things. I don't get mad at people who tell me I'm wrong, instead I will learn if what they are saying makes sense or can be proven.

Regardless of any of that this thread is about Wanstalls and M+M. Why we are fighting among ourselves is beyond me, M+M screwed over the Canadian firearms consumer and here we are calling each other names and trying to justify being mad at someone. Wanstalls appears to have been lied to just like we were and beyond that I doubt any of us will know the whole story about what went on behind the scenes.
Even if M+M and NS did some shady dealings like it looks like they did the bottom line is that Wanstalls and M+M promised the guys on the pre-order list that their deal would go through as promised then decided not to honor that promise. That is the issue here not me and my opinions on whatever, not what Rick may have done 30 years ago, not which rifle is better than the other.
M+M seems to have F'd everyone involved, especially Wanstalls and the guys on the pre-order. That's it, if people choose to support a company that does business like that then that's their decision but I for one won't buy one of these rifles for any price.

 

[fdc]

Irony much? Substitute the word Wanstalls for people in the above sentence if you’re not sure what I’m getting at.

This whole situation sucks but guys, take a breath and try to think about this in practical terms...Wanstalls is a small business and I’m sure they want nothing more than to honor the deal they thought they could deliver. But what kind of small business these days can afford to eat a $25K loss like this?

I’m sure verbal agreements in the Gun and Gun accessory business are probably the norm...when I think of all of the guns I’ve bought in the past from retailers....I can’t imagine every one of those guns arrived in the retailer’s hands after a formal signed agreement was created. I would expect gun retailers in Canada have to move quickly to try to capitalize on the next big thing to hit the market. Every year in the Gun industry it appears the margins get thinner, competition grows.

I wasn’t on the preorder and I sympathize with those who thought they were getting something they are not. But I also sympathize with Wanstalls. Preorder people are pissed because the gun they want is going to cost them $500 more. Imagine how pissed you’d be if you were Wanstalls - you stood to make $20K ($200 X 100 orders) and that just vanished along with a good chunk of customer goodwill! M+M and north sylva will make money, customers get shafted with the NR-tax, but Wanstalls are the ones who got proper f&#ked in this fiasco.

That is about as clear and succinct as anyone can make it. I would agree.

 

[bfiles]

Lol, now I need to find those posts, that's pathetic. He must have been drunk out of his mind telling stories like that.
I've never read any of those posts but if true puts him in a whole new light.

Oh really!!!!!!!! Can't believe the truth others tell you go dig into it yourself


I'm not mad at any on this forum but I'll call people out when I see it (wasn't that what you said a few pages ago)lol but I certainly am not greedy enough to push Wanstalls to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars for me to gain 550$ price on a rifle.
People who think that way obviously only care about themselves.

If I truly want an m10x still I'll either suck it up like a man and buy it from a NS dealer or I'll import one. Done

 

[bfiles]

It's worse then that, like he was never even in the US "Secret Special Forces" as he claims, let alone Vietnam.
He spouted all that #### off on CGN, got researched and exposed. Now he only spouts it to the gullibles in his shop.
I remember a few threads...one where he claimed the "little g***s would do backflips when you shot them with a .45 because it's so powerful" and another where "cows would fly 20 feet when you shot them with a .50" again because it's so powerful.
A brief lesson in physics shut him up, but it literally had to be explained like you were talking to a 10 year old for him to get it. Apparently he knew more about physics then Newton...
I would never buy or believe anything from that guy.

And THIS right here is why I will never purchase anything from him either.

 

[mikethebike]

I don't believe for a second that the actions of a dozen or so internet egomaniacs who act like the spoiled brats they are, will do anything to damage a retailer's (or a wholesaler's) reputation. These keyboard warriors talk a big talk. Their whining exploits on a forum that has long since garnered a reputation for fostering their behaviors, is obscure at best. A retailer's core business model is not based upon the stylists on cgn or any other forum. The majority of their clientele don't read this tripe. Nor do they care what a dozen or so denizens think or say.

And to let this idiocy continue for as long as it has, just proves that the owners of this forum condone this behavior. Are a few angry about the situation? Of course. But to have this crap all over these forums for the past week is just getting tiresome. I've kept my opinion to myself. But to those who jump on these things with the fervour of an eight year old in a toy store....please give it a rest. The entire world is sick of the b1tching. And you do look silly.

Business rule 1: any money not being spent at your business is damaging, even 1$

you're whining about people whining

your opinion is: move on
my opinion: is never again not a dime from me

im not whining, im stating my position.

Of course you can also choose not to read this thread if it bothers you so to hear people say what their position is, or just put everyone on ignore who doesn’t have the same opinion as you. Both work.

 

[cr5]

Oh really!!!!!!!! Can't believe the truth others tell you go dig into it yourself


I'm not mad at any on this forum but I'll call people out when I see it (wasn't that what you said a few pages ago)lol but I certainly am not greedy enough to push Wanstalls to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars for me to gain 550$ price on a rifle.
People who think that way obviously only care about themselves.

If I truly want an m10x still I'll either suck it up like a man and buy it from a NS dealer or I'll import one. Done

I never said you were lying or that your info was incorrect, only that I was not aware of it and had not heard much other than the little bit that spilled over into the regular forums which was usually deleted and the thread closed.
I don't just blindly believe what people say about others but if it can be backed with evidence only an idiot would continue to argue.

I honestly don't think Wanstalls would lose hundreds of thousands if they honored the pre-sale to the handful of guys that committed to it. The price they thought they were getting them for is probably only a couple hundred dollars less than the new dealer pricing per unit and even at the pre-sale price they would have set it to where they were at least making $100-$200 per rifle to make it worth their time so if I'm correct they would either make nothing or maybe lose a couple thousand dollars at most filling all the pre-orders. Only the difference between what they thought they were getting them for and the new dealer pricing and factoring in what profit margin they had set for the pre-sale deal matters, not the $500 difference in the retail price. This is all just a guess though since I have no idea how many people actually got in on the pre-order. I doubt it was more than 100 rifles involved.

 

[bfiles]

I never said you were lying or that your info was incorrect, only that I was not aware of it and had not heard much other than the little bit that spilled over into the regular forums which was usually deleted and the thread closed.
I don't just blindly believe what people say about others but if it can be backed with evidence only an idiot would continue to argue.

I honestly don't think Wanstalls would lose hundreds of thousands if they honored the pre-sale to the handful of guys that committed to it. The price they thought they were getting them for is probably only a couple hundred dollars less than the new dealer pricing per unit and even at the pre-sale price they would have set it to where they were at least making $100-$200 per rifle to make it worth their time so if I'm correct they would either make nothing or maybe lose a couple thousand dollars at most filling all the pre-orders. Only the difference between what they thought they were getting them for and the new dealer pricing and factoring in what profit margin they had set for the pre-sale deal matters, not the $500 difference in the retail price. This is all just a guess though since I have no idea how many people actually got in on the pre-order. I doubt it was more than 100 rifles involved.

In the end I'm not going to fault Wanstalls for what happened with this pre order

 

[CyprusTM]

In the end I'm not going to fault Wanstalls for what happened with this pre order

Their only fault is that they showed us what we could really purchase this rifle for, until mickey mouse got really greedy,

Not one dealer has come up and said anything against north sylva and their business practice

 

[D 23]

So how are the internet crybabies of TSC going to "close the doors" of Wanstalls?

Are you going to employ the same tactics that you used to shut down ATRS or TSE?

 

[GreenBob]

I have no dog in this run but in the end based on how Wanstalls handled this, they won't be seeing any of my money and I am sure there more then few of us who feel the same.

Cheers,

 

[D 23]

Hypocrites.

Get over yourselves.

You will buy whatever gun you want at the shop with the best price + stock.

Never read a thread about how any of you bought a gun for hundreds more on principal.

 

[GunsNotPuns]

And this is why I always roll my eyes at pre-orders offered by retailers -- whether they have a good reputation or not or are CGN site sponsors. So many times these things go tits up you'd think people would learn the lesson.

Of course, I'm guilty of it as well -- I participated in Wanstall's M1 Garand pre-order from James River last year. That at least worked out well.

 

[medvedqc]

I have no dog in this run but in the end based on how Wanstalls handled this, they won't be seeing any of my money and I am sure there more then few of us who feel the same.

Cheers,

you are not alone for sure and i already buy stuff from them. game over.

 

[mikethebike]

So how are the internet crybabies of TSC going to "close the doors" of Wanstalls?

Are you going to employ the same tactics that you used to shut down ATRS or TSE?

never bought from tse after what he did to me
have you?
everyone here knows how I feel about tse, I wont repeat myself or I'll get banned this time

Don't call us names by the way, you have no idea how determined I can be

Wanstalls is a 15 minute drive from me, they wont be seeing me anymore. Some say who cares, no o e wants a cry baby anyway, k well I spend about 10k per year at Wanstalls, that's gone now.

 

[cr5]

never bought from tse after what he did to me
have you?
everyone here knows how I feel about tse, I wont repeat myself or I'll get banned this time

Don't call us names by the way, you have no idea how determined I can be

Same here, I haven't spent a dime at TSE since the SA crap went down. I spent thousands there before it happened and will never walk through their doors again. Well maybe if I happen to be in Calgary when they are having a going out of business sale just so I can go smile at him. Even if only a handful of people actually follow through it still hurts them.

 

[Canada tail]

So mm changed their minds