Weird Ejection issue, seeking help (AR15)

Amazingkg3

Amazingkg3

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Hey guys,

Encountering a really weird extraction issue. Its a stoppage where a spent casing will sit perpendicular to the bolt, with the open mouth of the casing sticking out of the ejection port. The bolt will move forward trying to feed another round, but a type of double feed occurs. This happens maybe once every twenty rounds or so, and almost identical. Here are some things I observed.
1. Using Hornady Lacquered steel 55grain .223 (my opinion I think this is the problem.) the malfunction wouldn't occur with brass, but I only had about 20 on hand to try. I will be using brass hence forth.
2. New DLASK A6 muzzle break installed.
3. The casings eject forward. From observing it fire I think it's hitting the brass deflector.
4. The extractor claw is intact and sharp.
5. New DPMS complete bolt carrier group installed. I have used brass with this BCG and there was no issue within about the 50 rounds it's seen.
6. Gun hasn't been clean but the barrel and bolt have only seen about 300-400 rounds. Gets a good spray of G96 and the bolt is oiled well.
7. Not short stroking
8. Running the bolt in a Daniel Defense upper a Noveske lower.

Here's a pic of the malfunction. Any input or opinions are greatly valued. I do have a video of the malfunction happening as well if needed

435a1256.jpg
 
Your rifle is probably over gassed. Test by throwing a heavier buffer (or an extra power buffer spring) in your gun, and shooting the same ammo. If the ejection pattern moves towards 3-4 o' block, then you are definitely over gassed.

That malfunction can occur due to the bolt carrier moving rearward so quickly that the ejector does not have enough time to fully act on the spent round, slamming the brass deflector mid body and mid ejection, and often not actually clearing the ejection port.

Although very rare, I've been 'dead' ejectors (broken spring) cause the same problem as well.

Also, I would consider this a fail to extract first, a double feed second.
 
CarbineOne said:
Your rifle is probably over gassed. Test by throwing a heavier buffer (or an extra power buffer spring) in your gun, and shooting the same ammo. If the ejection pattern moves towards 3-4 o' block, then you are definitely over gassed.

That malfunction can occur due to the bolt carrier moving rearward so quickly that the ejector does not have enough time to fully act on the spent round, slamming the brass deflector mid body and mid ejection, and often not actually clearing the ejection port.

Although very rare, I've been 'dead' ejectors (broken spring) cause the same problem as well.

Also, I would consider this a fail to extract first, a double feed second.
Click to expand...

It's a Daniel Defense upper... I doubt it is overgassed.

What is the barrel lenght and gas system?
What buffer and spring are you using?
You should try other kinds of ammo to see if the problem really is with the hornady ammo.

You sure that DPMS BCG is working properly (I do question the choice of a DPMS BCG in a DD upper and Noveske lower)? Did you disassemble and inspect the bolt and test the ejector tension?

I also doubt the Hornady ammo would be the problem. Ejection pattern is so rifle/ammo specific, it's not a good way of telling if a rifle is over or under gassed.
 
You're right, DD is 100% forever. My bad.

But judging from the use of the DPMS BCG, that's not a complete DD upper, is it? If it is just a DD upper receiver, then it has no effect on reliability whatsoever.
 
I had the same problem and came here to find no one could help. Mine however was a 12" barrel and gas system. It was indeed over gassed and there were two ways to sort it out. One was to get a Dlask regulated gas system which allows you to reduce the gas by an allen screw in a block installed on the gas tube. This allows you to use any ammo and no problems. Also your brass can be regulated to drop by your right side not in the bushes by the side of the range.

You have no idea what size your gas vent is unless you check it out.

If it's oversize then it will continue this problem. It won't help to change extractors if this is the problem. As stated however, your extractor can be punk right out of the box. There's no way to really tell if this is so unless you change it.

Another way to fix it is reduce your loads by loading light. Most guys don't do that. Besides it's a pain.

What I eventually did was to weld over the gas vent and re-drill to .060 and the problem was instantly solved. I doubt you're prepared for that though.
 
It's a 14.5" with a carbine length gas system. A DPMS BCG is what I went with as it was the highest grade complete BCG in Alberta. I'd perfect to have a Daniel Defense one but to ensure it runs better, but cant find one.

I thought it was the ammo as the G96 in the chamber with the lacquered steel nay cause the casings to stick in the chamber. I'm going to go with a heavier buffer to see if that fixes it, but I'm wondering how to check the extractor spring? What would you recommend to check it? Just tear the bolt down?

I apologize for my ignorance. More of a firearm user than fixer.
 
Dietz said:
It's a Daniel Defense upper, the gas port is not oversized (or VERY unlikely).
Click to expand...

I bought the upper (sans bolt) already built. The previous user didn't have any issues with the gas system. The only variables I've introduced are
1. BCG
2. Charging handle
3. Muzzle break
4. Complete lower
 
CarbineOne said:
That malfunction can occur due to the bolt carrier moving rearward so quickly that the ejector does not have enough time to fully act on the spent round, slamming the brass deflector mid body and mid ejection, and often not actually clearing the ejection port.

Although very rare, I've been 'dead' ejectors (broken spring) cause the same problem
Click to expand...

If you look at the picture, you can see a bunch off brass colored spots on the brass deflector. I don't know if that's normal wear but it seemed to really stand out after you mentioned that point. Somewhat supports your theory
 
So took it out today with about 100 American Eagle 55gr. I ran it and the malfunction didnt happen, but the ejection is still off, sending the cases out at about 1-2 o clock everytime. I put the upper onto a Stag lower, and it seemed to run much better. I also took the bolt apart and the extractor spring as far as I can tell okay. It's intact, but not sure how to tell if it would be weak or something so I ordered a replacement on a Brownells order.

So if I had to guess, it was a weak buffer spring with oily lacquered casing that induced this. At least based on what you guys are saying and my experimenting.
 
I'm almost going to guess that it's your extractor spring. Some of them have been known to be weak. My Colt AR15A2 never had this problem, but some of the guys at my range HAVE had that problem - usually with Norc AR's though.

Did your extractor spring have a little black piece of plastic in it and was there a rubber donut or D-shaped rubber donut on it? From what I've been told, that will usually cure any extractor problems.
 
Are there a lot of brass markings on the lip of the ejection port itself?

Do you have a heavier buffer you can even borrow to try?
 
shredder said:
I'm almost going to guess that it's your extractor spring. Some of them have been known to be weak. My Colt AR15A2 never had this problem, but some of the guys at my range HAVE had that problem - usually with Norc AR's though.

Did your extractor spring have a little black piece of plastic in it and was there a rubber donut or D-shaped rubber donut on it? From what I've been told, that will usually cure any extractor problems.
Click to expand...

And it creates others. A properly built AR-15 with in-spec components should not have to be run with the crane o-ring.

I just don't get how your upper would run much better on a Stag lower, when it was on a Noveske lower previously... And don't overthink ejection pattern, there are too many variables.

Could you take a pic of the extractor spring?
 
Dietz said:
And it creates others. A properly built AR-15 with in-spec components should not have to be run with the crane o-ring.

I just don't get how your upper would run much better on a Stag lower, when it was on a Noveske lower previously... And don't overthink ejection pattern, there are too many variables.

Could you take a pic of the extractor spring?
Click to expand...

I dont think it was the lower itself, it's that the stag probably had a stronger recoil buffer spring fixing the issue as CarbineOne suggested. Everything I am running is good quality gear, I just don't know if they are talking to each other or what.

Ill take the bolt down and take a picture of the extractor. If it is busted I got it a new one coming. It looked fine from when I took it down.

Is their any external test I can do on the extractor, like test the flex? It seems rigid, like there is no play. I'm a handgun guy, Im just getting used to Carbines...so far pretty frustrating!
 
I was going to say Ejector or Ejector Spring. The fact that it is tossing brass out at 2o'clock tells me it is ported just-right (large enough to function with commercial .223 ammo).
 
I had the exact same stovepipe problem .. it turned out to be my buffer tube , the threads on the tube were messed up a bit causing a slight misalignment that was affecting the BCG from working right, replaced the buffer tube now its 100%... Also make sure you castle nut is tight ..heres the pic i took when i was having issues
001-11.jpg
 
Bcviking said:
I had the exact same stovepipe problem .. it turned out to be my buffer tube , the threads on the tube were messed up a bit causing a slight misalignment that was affecting the BCG from working right, replaced the buffer tube now its 100%... heres the pic i took when i was having issues
001-11.jpg
Click to expand...

It's funny you mention that because when these issues were happening, the buffer tube became loose and I had to wrench it back on. Maybe it just broke free and was inducing the malfunction...

How do you know the threads were bad? Mine seems to go on fine like any other buffer, should I check to see if it's out of spec? Was there damage?

This explains why it worked better on the Stag lower...
 
Make sure your castle nut is nice and tight. that might be the issue .. i found out my threads were bad because i took the whole thing apart and seen they were damaged ,, ive herd of some people using locktite on the castle nut ..
 
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