What Cartridge for both Moose and Deer ??

[CH_Tiger_14]

30-06 for me cuz..... thats all I've ever used besides my 300 Savage

 

[mackillan]

7mm Rem Mag kicks about the same as a 30-06.

30-06 has enough power for any game in Canada within the range most people would shoot. Bullets are most common, less recoil than magnums. If the short action turns your crank, get a 308. The real world difference is probably very little.

 

[powder burner]

.375 H&H. Works as well as any small round, just better.

As for .308 vs. 7mm-08, actually the .308 shoots flatter, and DEFINITELY hits harder due to bore size and greater efficiency with equivalent bullet weights, ESPECIALLY heavy bullets which will be used for moose.

You dont NEED heavy bullets for moose, the 7mm (.284) WILL shoot flatter than the .308 (.30)

 

[mechanic1908]

I'd go with a 6.5x55.
It's got all the S.D. you need from gophers to elephants and has been used for everything from and between those extremes.
IMHO
Eric

 

[NAA]

.30-06

NAA.

 

[Ardent]

You dont NEED heavy bullets for moose, the 7mm (.284) WILL shoot flatter than the .308 (.30)

No, it will not, and even with 140gr class bullets, a 7mm standard, the .30 cal still shoots flatter and arrives with more energy due to being more efficient at converting pressure into velocity. It's basic physics, and isn't up for debate. The .30 cal doesn't suffer enough in the BC category to fall behind the 7mm, it remains faster, flatter, and more powerful over all hunting ranges at an equivalent bullet weight to the 7mm. The 7mm-08 is just sales hype, and if one wants to buy the hype, all the more power to them but the .308 will outperform as a hunting cartridge. The only reason to pick a 7mm-08 is if you only shoot 7mm cals and want only one bullet diameter to stock. The 7mm-08 picks up nothing on the .308, they are dead even, with even a slight edge to the .308. I'm sure in certain combos, the edge can tilt the other way. My point is, for a guy asking for an "all-around" caliber, he's probably looking for off the shelf ammunition availability too. .308 can be had ANYWHERE, can't remember the last time I saw a whiz bang cartridge on the shelves in a small town. And I've lived in a lot of them. Also owned a lot of 7mms, including -08's. They're good. But the .308 is every bit as good, has more bullets, and is more available. Common sense says...

You'll remember this thread, as well, I'm sure:

JBM balliistics for the calculations, both rifles shooting 150gr boat tail TSX's. The .308 has a rather sizable velocity advantage with 150gr, due to greater efficiency, and gives up a little on BC which is more than made up for inside 300 yards by the velocity. Used the fastest load in each cal for the 150's, the .308 was around 2,900 fps, if I remember correctly, and the 7mm-08 just under... ahh heck with it, pulled up Hodgdon's online data, I enjoy this stuff:

Max 150gr load with Varget as per published loads by Hodgdon, and associated pressure, for each cal:

.308 Win: 2,937 fps - 47.0grs - Varget - 50,300cup

7mm-08: 2,731 fps - 41.3grs - Varget - 50,000cup

The .308 is superior to 800 yards in drop and energy, and still superior after 800 yards in drop and giving up just fractional figures in energy after 800. None of us hunt out there, so that's farther than we need to look, but even there, the difference is a percent of two in energy after 800, and the .308 drops less.

Calculated Tables:

.308 Win, 150gr TSX BT BC .369 as per Barnes: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)

100 -0.0 -0.0 0.8 0.8 2680.5 2.401 2392.8 0.107 18.8 18.0
200 -3.4 -1.6 3.5 1.7 2438.2 2.184 1979.7 0.224 39.5 18.8
300 -12.6 -4.0 8.3 2.6 2208.7 1.978 1624.6 0.354 62.2 19.8
400 -28.9 -6.9 15.5 3.7 1991.8 1.784 1321.1 0.497 87.4 20.9
500 -54.1 -10.3 25.5 4.9 1788.3 1.602 1065.0 0.656 115.4 22.0
600 -90.2 -14.4 38.7 6.2 1600.3 1.433 852.8 0.833 146.6 23.3
700 -139.9 -19.1 55.7 7.6 1430.7 1.281 681.6 1.031 181.5 24.8
800 -206.7 -24.7 76.7 9.2 1283.5 1.150 548.6 1.253 220.5 26.3
900 -294.6 -31.3 102.0 10.8 1163.4 1.042 450.8 1.499 263.8 28.0
1000 -408.2 -39.0 131.4 12.6 1073.0 0.961 383.4 1.768 311.2 29.7

7mm-08 Rem 150gr TSX BT BC .408 as per Barnes:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)

100 -0.0 -0.0 0.8 0.8 2508.8 2.247 2096.0 0.115 20.2 19.3
200 -4.0 -1.9 3.5 1.7 2297.3 2.058 1757.6 0.240 42.2 20.1
300 -14.7 -4.7 8.2 2.6 2096.1 1.877 1463.1 0.376 66.2 21.1
400 -33.3 -7.9 15.3 3.7 1905.3 1.707 1208.9 0.526 92.7 22.1
500 -61.4 -11.7 25.1 4.8 1726.2 1.546 992.3 0.692 121.8 23.3
600 -101.3 -16.1 38.0 6.0 1560.4 1.398 810.8 0.875 154.0 24.5
700 -155.6 -21.2 54.2 7.4 1410.3 1.263 662.3 1.077 189.6 25.9
800 -227.3 -27.1 74.3 8.9 1279.0 1.146 544.8 1.301 228.9 27.3
900 -320.3 -34.0 98.2 10.4 1170.0 1.048 455.9 1.546 272.2 28.9
1000 -438.8 -41.9 125.8 12.0 1085.5 0.972 392.4 1.813 319.1 30.5

Well, and say you were concerned that there are loads that produce slightly more with a different powder in the 7mm-08 than Varget, so I've included that as well, which also shows the .308 Win superior in both drop and energy to 400 yards. This is Hodgdons fastest 150gr 7mm-08 load, with any powder, at 2,823fps. The .308 still outdoes it since it can launch more than 100fps faster than even this load at the same bullet weight.

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)

100 -0.0 -0.0 0.8 0.8 2596.3 2.325 2244.7 0.111 19.5 18.6
200 -3.7 -1.8 3.3 1.6 2380.6 2.132 1887.3 0.231 40.7 19.5
300 -13.5 -4.3 7.8 2.5 2175.3 1.948 1575.7 0.363 63.9 20.4
400 -30.7 -7.3 14.6 3.5 1980.2 1.774 1305.8 0.508 89.4 21.3
500 -56.8 -10.8 23.9 4.6 1796.3 1.609 1074.5 0.667 117.4 22.4
600 -93.7 -14.9 36.1 5.7 1624.9 1.455 879.3 0.843 148.3 23.6
700 -143.8 -19.6 51.6 7.0 1468.2 1.315 717.8 1.037 182.5 24.9
800 -210.0 -25.1 70.7 8.4 1329.0 1.190 588.2 1.252 220.3 26.3
900 -296.0 -31.4 93.7 9.9 1210.7 1.084 488.1 1.489 262.0 27.8
1000 -405.8 -38.8 120.5 11.5 1116.4 1.000 415.1 1.747 307.5 29.4

I used to be a rabid 7mm-08 fan, but I noticed my .308 at the time was dropping less from the same barrel length, and was surprised. I'm sure even with the lighter bullets, the .308 will shine, as it really starts to scream with them again due to the basal area. So, at any hunting range, the .308 has a slight edge. Was enough to make me feel just fine, and actually impressed by, the "old .308". So now, I shoot 7x57 and .308. Like both bores, but there's no advantage to the 7mm for a hunter, just a different flavour.

 

[ben hunchak]

That's allota stuff to remember if you just wanna shoot a moose, and will the moose care?

 

[Mark Dube]

7x57, 7mm Mauser, 275 Rigby

the original "do it all" round

 

[stubblejumper]

The .30 cal doesn't suffer enough in the BC category to fall behind the 7mm, it remains faster, flatter, and more powerful over all hunting ranges at an equivalent bullet weight to the 7mm.

You are basing your assumption on only one source,try some others.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/rifle_compare.aspx


150gr power shock loads-trajectory

Long Range
Click to Enlarge Long Range Graph
Long Range
Load No

Caliber

50 Y

100 Y

200 Y

300 Y

400 Y

500 Y
708CS

7mm-08 Rem.

1.0

2.2


-9.2

-26.5

-54.4
308A

308 Win. (7.62x51mm)

0.8

2.0


-8.8

-26.3

-55.2

The 308win starts out flatter,but by around 400 yards,the 7mm-08 catches up.

Energy

708CS

7mm-08 Rem.

2339

1979

1664

1390

1151

950
308A

308 Win. (7.62x51mm)

2648

2134

1702

1341

1044

807

By 300 yards,the 7mm-08 has more remaining energy.

My Nosler #4 manual has the 7mm-08 taking over within 100 yards.


Now for a proper comparison,compare bullets of similar sectional density,that would be comparing the 140gr 7mm-08 to the 165gr 308 win.The 7mm-08 will definitely shoot flatter.

 

[shortaction]

No, it will not, and even with 140gr class bullets, a 7mm standard, the .30 cal still shoots flatter and arrives with more energy due to being more efficient at converting pressure into velocity. It's basic physics, and isn't up for debate. The .30 cal doesn't suffer enough in the BC category to fall behind the 7mm, it remains faster, flatter, and more powerful over all hunting ranges at an equivalent bullet weight to the 7mm. The 7mm-08 is just sales hype, and if one wants to buy the hype, all the more power to them but the .308 will outperform as a hunting cartridge. The only reason to pick a 7mm-08 is if you only shoot 7mm cals and want only one bullet diameter to stock. The 7mm-08 picks up nothing on the .308, they are dead even, with even a slight edge to the .308. I'm sure in certain combos, the edge can tilt the other way. My point is, for a guy asking for an "all-around" caliber, he's probably looking for off the shelf ammunition availability too. .308 can be had ANYWHERE, can't remember the last time I saw a whiz bang cartridge on the shelves in a small town. And I've lived in a lot of them. Also owned a lot of 7mms, including -08's. They're good. But the .308 is every bit as good, has more bullets, and is more available. Common sense says...

You'll remember this thread, as well, I'm sure:

You might also remember these figures as well from the same thread?

The following info is from the Hornady Sixth Edition Reloading Manual. It showed the 7mm-08 with a 24" barrel so I deducted 60 fps(30fps per inch of barrel) as the 308 only had a 22" barrel.

These are max loads for both calibers and a 200 yd zero. This shows the 7mm-08 at 2.4" flatter and with 20% more energy at 500 yards or another way to look at it is the 7mm-08 has as much energy and velocity at 500 yards as the 308 does at 400 yards. All this and shooting a higher S.D. bullet to boot!!!


308 with 150gr SST/Interbond .415 BC

Ballistics Table in Yards 150 gr., .415 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2800 2690 2582 2374 2176 1988 1810
Energy (ft.-lb.) 2611 2410 2221 1878 1577 1316 1091
Trajectory (200 yd. zero) -1.5 0.8 1.9 0.0 -8.0 -23.4 -47.6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7mm-08 with 154gr SST/Interbond .530 BC

Ballistics Table in Yards 154 gr., .53 B.C. www.hornady.com

Range (yards) Muzzle 50 100 200 300 400 500
Velocity (fps) 2740 2655 2571 2408 2251 2099 1954
Energy (ft.-lb.) 2567 2410 2260 1982 1732 1507 1305
Trajectory (200 yd. zero) -1.5 0.8 1.9 0.0 -7.9 -22.6 -45.2

 

[Wrong Way]

338 federal.....hands down

 

[Calum]

Every season, the same topic...

 

[Huntin' Gun]

Any of them will do. For Whitetail I prefer a .270. For moose I prefer a 300 magnum. A .270 will kill a moose, especially with a bonded or mono-metal bullet. A 300 magnum is far more than is needed for a whitetail, but nobody will argue that it's up for the task. Really, it comes down to personal preference. If you've got your heart set on the rifle you ordered, but want something else while you wait, then get a 30-06 husky from tradex. Inexpensive, but high quality. It'll take a moose and a deer without breaking a sweat.

 

[mooseman1]

the 270wsm makes it the best of both worlds, you have speed ,range and you can still use a 160 grain, and still not blow up your deer.but if it's a gun that your gonna use for only one or two times a year get the -06 buy ammo off the shelf and good luck with your hunting.

 

[Yeti]

I like (but haven't tried it yet) the 35Whelen. Big & slow, minimize meat damage. Can't fault the 30-06 as a do all cartridge though.

 

[crazydave]

The best calibre for moose and deer is any calibre you can shoot comfortably and accurately over .25

 

[gtrussell]

it may not be the "best" but wheres the 303 brit its taken both for the last 100 years???

that is why the world wars lasted as long as they did..not good weapons,but as long as what the other guy was using,was the same, no one new the difference.....

 

[gtrussell]

30-06. more selection of rifles, and more selection of ammo.

308 has huge choice of bullet weight...

 

[gtrussell]

I'm thinking that most of your shooting will be within say 150 yds. so I'd go with a lever action 45/70 and handloads.

45/70 not a good choice on moving target,deer pushes are the way of hunting on the prairies..just my thought...

 

[RUPZUK]

What, no 6.5 ???