What do you think of the muzzle crown on this brand new .44 Mag rifle?

B

BeRock

Member
Rating - 100%
29   0   0
Location
Oliver BC
Hi All,

I just bought a new rifle -- and overall I'm impressed enough with the quality for the price. I'm not going to disclose what it is... yet (I'm sorry), as I am still hoping to hear something back from the manufacturer. I will wait for final judgement and give them the benefit of the doubt before I launch into something I can't rescind. Anyway... blah blah... I am keeping the rifle regardless because there is no suitable replacement -- and I can't make one myself.... plus, I think the price was worth it even with this minor problem. The retailer was excellent to deal with -- and they quickly offered a refund... Fair enough. I don't want a refund. They were good about it. I bought it sight-unseen online. I do wish the factory would pay for professional gunsmithing, but I'm not holding my breathe (and I haven't even asked).

I'm not a gunsmith -- but I'm a good home machinist, so I plan on fixing it myself. The plan isn't formulated. I was thinking of a dedicated .44 cal piloted muzzle crown tool... or just a piloted 45° chamfer cutter... since I can't chuck it up in my lathe without removing the barrel... (or should I remove it?). I can make a deadly perfect pilot. If the barrel comes off, then it's a walk-in-the-park normal lathe chamfer.

So here is the .44 Mag crown fresh from the factory. I measured the bore as within .001" concentric to the outside of the barrel (under .002" TIR) -- so the problem IS the crown. It's a bit hard to measure, but it looks about .010" off centre (so, .020" TIR). The muzzle is well square to the bore. If I were to do this, I would aim for dead nuts. What's your judgement? [If you do know what rifle it is, could you please keep it quiet until there is some resolution... I do respect the company. I'll fill in all the details later].

 
Last edited:
Looks like bubba got to it. Is it possible that was done at the gun store or by someone who returned it?
The off center tool marks are white and still have bits of burr making me think it's from after test firing and quality control.
 
It would only require 20 seconds to make it look better with a piloted 60 degree chamfer reamer. No lathe required.

60degreereamer-0.jpg
 
Last edited:
vagrantviking said:
Looks like bubba got to it. Is it possible that was done at the gun store or by someone who returned it?
The off center tool marks are white and still have bits of burr making me think it's from after test firing and quality control.
Click to expand...

This is actually the second rifle... I sent the first one back for other reasons. The muzzle of No. 1 looked the same, but concentric. That is fluff.
 
mooncoon said:
The question which comes to my mind is "how accurate is the gun" ? Don't fix what ain't broke

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Indeed... But it's hard to imagine it being good with the crown so far off... and it's a buck-a-shot and a pain in the *** trip to the range to find out. It's also the principal. Every shot from 100 yards that doesn't go through the ten will otherwise be the gun's fault.
 
Last edited:
BeRock said:
Indeed... But it's hard to imagine it being good with the crown so far off... and it's a buck-a-shot and a pain in the *** trip to the range to find out. It's also the principal. Every shot from 100 yards that doesn't go through the ten will otherwise be the gun's fault.
Click to expand...

Moon is very right, it may shoot just as good now as it will with a "cosmetically pleasing repair"...no guarantees at all that a slight centering cut will bring any noticeable "shooting improvement" . The amount of improvement would be greater with a small bore, very fast bullet rather than a slow, big based bullet like a 44 mag.

As others have said a very quick and easy fix in a lathe with a bore big enough to fit the muzzle thru without messing with the front sight but if you have to mess with the action or gun to get it to fit your machinery, I'd sure give her a range trip before that happens.
 
fingers284 said:
As others have said a very quick and easy fix in a lathe with a bore big enough to fit the muzzle thru without messing with the front sight but if you have to mess with the action or gun to get it to fit your machinery, I'd sure give her a range trip before that happens.
Click to expand...

If the barrel can be removed from the receiver, you do not need a lathe with a large diameter bore. My lathe is a Myford Super 7 with a 5/8 bore and both for chambering and crowning I support the end of the barrel in a steady rest. As long as the bore is concentric with the outside of the barrel, you should have no problem. The limiting factor is potentially the length of the bed

cheers mooncoon
 
Are those "chatter" marks at 7 and 10 o'clock? .. if they are ...how are you determining that the muzzle is square to the bore?
 
I forgot to mention; if the bore is not concentric to the outside of the barrel or if the barrel is octagonal, you can make a nylon bushing about 1" thick front to back, put that near the muzzle and with the muzzle supported in the tail stock, turn the nylon bushing concentric and then install the steady rest.


cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Ok. I will shoot it first for a benchmark for the "before and after". If it shoots okay, I'm still going to "fix" it.

We'll see what effect a terrible crown has on a 1600fps .44 240Gr bullet in the real world. I measured it as best I can -- and the crown is .015" deeper on one side than the other. That seems gigantic to my non-gunsmithness. Is it enough to bother a .44 bullet? We'll see. I bet it is, but I'll come back here and eat crow no problem.... but this is Olympic Lever Action shooting after all. (Ha).

The muzzle end squareness was checked with a toolmaker's square (those little adjustable ones) calibrated on my DoAll 50-millionths granite square (see, I'm not normal).

There are light chatter marks all around the crown. The photo makes 2 and 7 o'clock look worse and the rest look okay. It's not.

I have a lathe, so using it makes this a free repair except for my time... where buying a chamfer tool or sending it out costs money.

Anyway, if I unscrew the barrel (with a DIY, rosined oak cauled barrel vise and a careful hold of the receiver...), it's an easy job in the lathe of course. I'll hold in a 4-jaw -- but I must figure a way to dial relative to the bore at the chamber end -- or confirm chamber to barrel concentricity first... Anyway, I'll figure it out (and a tiny runout 12" from the muzzle is probably ok). I know to indicate the bore, not the barrel. My point is that I'm not going to do it inaccurately. I'll probably do it too accurately... but dialing setups is fun to me (except when I'm getting paid -- and then it's to within tolerance...). Too fussy for a .44? Probably...

Can I expect the barrel to be simply screwed on without loctite? Here's where I have to spill the beans without mentioning the maker because I don't want it "searchable" at this point. It's a 12" barrel '92 with a full butt stock. It's not Brazilian... It's more expensive and Italian... and a more faithful reproduction (no safety, flat hammer spring..). The machining elsewhere is excellent -- the (real) colour case hardening is very nice -- and I like it a lot -- and I didn't hesitate to refuse a refund.

Moon: Interesting tip on making a concentric plastic bushing "tire" for the steady rest.... I like that. I do have a barrel band spot nice and close to run the steady rest on... but your idea would be better.

Here's a pic... What the hell... (if you see scratches, they're not scratches... the finish is excellent). Apparently they use bone for the colour case hardening. The knurling of the hammer could (should) be more aggressive.


Thanks again. I'll update this with results and findings at some point.

I do need some encouragement to unscrew the barrel though!
 
Last edited:
BeRock said:
Thanks for the replies, guys.

Ok. I will shoot it first for a benchmark for the "before and after". If it shoots okay, I'm still going to "fix" it.

We'll see what effect a terrible crown has on a 1600fps .44 240Gr bullet in the real world. I measured it as best I can -- and the crown is .015" deeper on one side than the other. That seems gigantic to my non-gunsmithness. Is it enough to bother a .44 bullet? We'll see. I bet it is, but I'll come back here and eat crow no problem.... but this is Olympic Lever Action shooting after all. (Ha).

The muzzle end squareness was checked with a toolmaker's square (those little adjustable ones) calibrated on my DoAll 50-millionths granite square (see, I'm not normal).

There are light chatter marks all around the crown. The photo makes 2 and 7 o'clock look worse and the rest look okay. It's not.

I have a lathe, so using it makes this a free repair... where buying a chamfer tool or sending it out costs money.

Anyway, if I unscrew the barrel (with a DIY, oak cauled, rosined barrel vise and a careful hold of the receiver...), it's an easy job in the lathe of course. I'll hold in a 4-jaw -- but I must figure a way to dial relative to the bore at the chamber end -- or confirm chamber to barrel concentricity first... Anyway, I'll figure it out (and a tiny runout 12" from the muzzle is probably ok). My point is that I'm not going to do it inaccurately. I'll probably do it too accurately... but dialing setups is fun to me (except when I'm getting paid -- and then it's to within tolerance...). Too fussy for a .44? Probably...

Can I expect the barrel to be simply screwed on without loctite? Here's where I have to spill the beans without mentioning the maker because I don't want it "searchable" at this point. It's a 12" barrel '92 with a full butt stock. It's not Brazilian... It's more expensive and Italian... and a more faithful reproduction (no safety, flat hammer spring..). The machining elsewhere is excellent -- the (real) colour case hardening is very nice -- and I like it a lot and I didn't hesitate to refuse a refund.

Moon: Interesting tip on making a concentric plastic bushing "tire" for the steady rest.... I like that. I do have a barrel band spot nice and close to run the steady rest on... but your idea would be better.

Here's a pic... What the hell... (if you see scratches, they're not scratches... the finish is excellent). Apparently they use bone for the colour case hardening. The knurling of the hammer could (should) be more aggressive.


Thanks again. I'll update this with results and findings at some point.
Click to expand...

the type of chatter marks I see indicate to me that the crown was probably cut (but poorly) with the tool Guntech displayed and not on a lathe. Since using such a tool (assuming the pilot was correct for the bore) will cut a crown square to the bore ... and it obviously doesnt appear to be - there is something wrong - unless the crown is not square to the bore ... anyway good luck .. I am sure you can get this straightened away.
 
AP said:
the type of chatter marks I see indicate to me that the crown was probably cut (but poorly) with the tool Guntech displayed and not on a lathe. Since using such a tool (assuming the pilot was correct for the bore) will cut a crown square to the bore ... and it obviously doesnt appear to be - there is something wrong - unless the crown is not square to the bore ... anyway good luck .. I am sure you can get this straightened away.
Click to expand...

I call bull s h i t on that statement... the piloted 60 degree reamer cuts extremely smooth by hand or in the lathe... and concentric to the bore... I have been using one for over 45 years... it can not cut that bad...
 
It is my opinion that your picture of the crown is not in the original condition that it left the manufacturer in. Perhaps unbeknownst to you someone saw fit to improve upon the muzzle for their own personal gain or education but there's no way a manufacturer is going to the trouble of finishing a rifle by way of the blueing process and then attack the muzzle with an after thought. Sorry I smell a rat, DH.
 
I would be tempted to square off the barrel, and re cut the crown to maintain concentricity to bore. To try to re-cut a crown without barrel removal is most difficult and you have a 50-50 chance of getting it right or pooching it.

Another point to consider is trying to recut is a point of diminishing returns without a square starting point, at least in terms of ultimate metal removal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom