Londonshooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
No, I imagine that fellow did not mean that Chessies are exclusively spared from having the hunting bred out of them.
what dog for ducks and grouse?
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No, I imagine that fellow did not mean that Chessies are exclusively spared from having the hunting bred out of them.
Londonshooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
There are lots of great dogs and lots of great dog owners. I would not disrespect any of them to suggest one breed better than another for their own circumstance. The guy you're talking about has a special needs kid and hunts lots of geese. A Chessie is a great dog for that. Not so much for grouse (as you noted earlier).
Just curious, but how far will your dog point, and how long will it hold a point? I am used to pointing dogs that are often 100 yards or more away, that will point upland birds to 60 yards or more, and that will hold point for minutes if required, while the hunter gets to them.
john-brennan
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island B.C.
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And THAT'S what I'd expect to hear from a dog guy. I would never presume to champion my favoured style of dog for a role it wasn't intended for, or to let my personal biases creep into a recommendation.
And if I hunted lots of geese, the LAST dog I'd pick is mine. I'd want a long hair PP, or preferably a purpose beed cold water retriever. It's not that Lola won't do cold water retrieves all day, it's that she'll kill herself doing it. She's a skinny lean thing with a short coat. She's totally fine down to -20 if we're hunting - I had her out all day in Temagami hunting snowshoes on.... uh... snowshoes, but if she stops moving with that short coat she's cold FAST.
I have a good friend who's son has autism - he and Lola are the best of friends. Probably because they both like swimming in the ocean as much as the other, and Lola loves getting manhandled and hugged to death. I'm happy to watch them from shore and stay out of the frigid north Atlantic. I don't know if I'd recommend a PP in that specific case, I don't have any real experience with that situation, but most working dogs I've seen around special needs kids have been excellent.
And without seeing your specific pooch hunt, I couldn't possibly disagree. Indeed, if one was say an 80% waterfowl and 20% upland hunter, maybe a dog from that breed line would be a great choice. But we're talking A chessie vs THE chessie.
My point is that if the question is "what dog is good at upland and waterfowl?", the answer is a VHD. That doesn't mean some retrievers can't hunt. It doesn't mean some VHDs won't be so keen on retrieving in late November. But it does mean that that's the breed category that was developed for that exact problem.
There's a reason why I've yet to meet a serious upland hunter let alone serious grouse hunter who chose a retriever. If chessies were an good as a versatile dog at hunting, then guys would buy them for that. They don't.
I LOVE her expression in the first pic BTW.
Most places I hunt upland here in BC you can't even see further than 30-40 meters so that is how far I've seen her point. So there is no need for the dog to point for minutes as it doesn't take me that long to get there. But good suggestion I'll leave her point deliberatly next time to see how she will do.
But that's exactly the point. A good grouse dog will work well outside your sight range and find birds in dense cover without you having to be within 30m of them. There's times Lola works so far out I can't hear her until her point beep goes off. You can sure cover a lot more ground and find a lot more birds that way. That's where a dog that knows how to hunt and work a bird and pin it until you get there makes a difference. She does these great big running loops 100m+ out, checking back in with me on each pass, working into the wind each time. Plus her reliance on her nose, and her sense of smell, is absurd. It's bonkers how well she can smell. She can make a beeline for a rubber ball in waist high grass if you chuck it 20m downwind of her. Her hunting drive with her nose is borderline brain damaged.
FWIW, the longest I've seen her hold point was 45 minutes. I know this exactly because she was pointing a rabbit in the yard when I put dinner in the oven, and was on point in the same spot until I took it out.
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Where do you get it from that a retriever cannot hunt upland?
On the other hand if somebody who knows about water-fowling dogs knows that the indeed good and shiny looking PP above has not the physical tools of the trade to work in harsh wet/snowy conditions around water and in swamps. No waterproof double coat, no webbed feet, no tail that can be effectively used as a rudder when retrieveng out of fast flowing water, the abilty to paddle along a kayak for up to 45 min. at a time...
RR
Londonshooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Glad you are onboard, Flashman2. You do know the original Flashman was a misanthropic racist ###ist misogynous fuggup?
How can I find the bird if I don't know where the dog is? If the dog beeps when pointing on a grouse. The bird will be gone
RR
Um, PPs have webbed feet. And long tails. MY dog, and SCs, don't have double coats, but that's because we wanted slick ones. Look at Greenjeepguy's for a more typical PP coat. They are usually hairy, but they can also be short coat. Slick is ok, the breed standard is that it can't be too long. But most come out wire haired like GJGs, the slick ones can be looked down upon but dedicated upland guys tend to prefer them. Sure are easier to keep clean and cool.
I don't know what you define as fast flowing, but the tidal rip here is 4 or 5 knots or so, and Lola has no issue swimming back against it on a retrieve.
She's spent literally hours in the water swimming. Hours at a time. I don't go kayaking with her, but she does love swimming off our trawler.
Lola and I have spent many days each winter hunting snowshoes in wet and snowy conditions. Wet and miserable conditions. In cedar swamps.
As I said, I sure wouldn't pick a slick coat PP as a first choice for a waterfowl specific dog. Never. They're definitely not as hardy a retriever as a dedicated breed, but if you score the hunt/point/retrieve ability on land and water, they'll blow a retriever away. Duh. That's what very smart and very capable people have bred them to do.
And I most certainly did not say that a retriever CAN'T hunt upland. If you actually read what I said, I said the exact opposite. I said they weren't developed or specifically intended to do so, and any upland ability in a retriever is a pleasant side bonus.
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I have a bell for when she's moving (I HATE listening to a beep all day long) and a collar set to beep on point. You can't always hear the bell as good as a beep but I'll live with it. Her collar has a hawk screech setting to freeze the bird but I don't use it, it stresses me out. I've never had a problem with her finding a bird and pointing it till I get there. Truthfully it wasn't even really my teaching, she just... did it. She knows where to put herself and how far to be to keep the bird locked until I get there. After years of working together I have a pretty solid idea of where she is on her loops at any point, and the beeping homes you in. That's what a good grouse dog does.
I cannot make any sense of what you are saying! You probably can't yourself. lmao
RR out.
It shouldn't be that hard to understand. An upland hunter would get it instantly. The fact you don't tells me how much upland hunting you do.
Upland hunters use beeping collars to find their dogs. These collars have settings for different beeps on the move, and different beeps stationary on point. You can pick and set which beep goes off when so you know if your dog is hunting, or pointing. When you hear the pointing beep, you move in and get your bird.
I prefer not to listen to a beep all day when she's hunting, so I disable that function, and set the collar to beep only when she's on point. When she's moving, I have the bell and the sound of her crashing through the brush, which I find far more pleasant to listen to.
If you had a good upland dog that hunted out of sight range, I suspect you would have discovered this need for yourself.
Clear?
You seem not to understand that the bird will be gone when the collar beeps.
And I don't use any electronic hunting aids for any of my hunts other than an emergency radio and GPS because I don't believe in hanging all these fashion hunter gizmos on a dog. It takes away from my and the dogs hunting fun.
Maybe put some Christmas lights on yours with a remote switch so you can find her in the dark to lift her point in front of your rabbit stall. lol
RR
And I don't use any electronic hunting aids for any of my hunts other than an emergency radio and GPS because I don't believe in hanging all these fashion hunter gizmos on a dog. It takes away from my and the dogs hunting fun.
Maybe put some Christmas lights on yours with a remote switch so you can find her in the dark to lift her point in front of your rabbit stall. lol
RR
