What target 22 ?

[bigHUN]

Thank you all for taking time with me.
Yes I browsed "the currently active 100 yard challenge thread" and this is why I decided I would like to join it with great confidence...I just need a 22 rifle. I may even ask them if they would accept my 100M airgun cards
I was competing in archery long range shooting for almost two decades and travelled couple countries, but I got some surgeries and I had to stop drawing the bow.
So I started training for competition "long ranges" with airguns but the BS Covid rendered that my plan useless as well, also the economy is heading to downhill and travelling away for tournaments is just nonsense today.
At least I have several ranges at my club and people are fantastic.

 

[super7]

The cz457 and tikka T1x are pretty decent performers for the money.

 

[bigHUN]

The cz457 and tikka T1x are pretty decent performers for the money.

Thanks. I need to find with BR rear stock so at least that part I don't need to alter.

 

[Tinybear]

I been messing lately with bringing my .22lr rifles to the 100 yard range. Been having a lot of fun with it. Found my savage mark II heavy barrel is capable of groups nearly as good as my .223

My Cz I have yet to get to match the savage but also haven’t found an ammo that’s really consistent in the CZ. The savage runs amazing with SK Match but the CZ throws those all over. So far it does best with CCI SV but ends up with at least one flyer in 10.

My base model Savage A22 that I put into a Boyd’s stock is on par with the CZ. This was my first rifle and been a fun little shooter. Want to put a better scope on it. Going try a Jared trigger the stock trigger on mines been awesome, I hear these triggers are hit and miss, I just prefer metal). Plan to see if I can get this semi to get down to a consistent under 1” group at the 100yard range.

Point being at least for me 3 out of the 5 22lr rifles I have a what I consider very accurate just above and just below MOA.

My other 22lr rifles are take downs and ones open sights. So I keep them to the 25 yard range. (Wish my club had a 50yard option)

 

[machohugeaxe]

I been messing lately with bringing my .22lr rifles to the 100 yard range. Been having a lot of fun with it. Found my savage mark II heavy barrel is capable of groups nearly as good as my .223

My Cz I have yet to get to match the savage but also haven’t found an ammo that’s really consistent in the CZ. The savage runs amazing with SK Match but the CZ throws those all over. So far it does best with CCI SV but ends up with at least one flyer in 10.

My base model Savage A22 that I put into a Boyd’s stock is on par with the CZ. This was my first rifle and been a fun little shooter. Want to put a better scope on it. Going try a Jared trigger the stock trigger on mines been awesome, I hear these triggers are hit and miss, I just prefer metal). Plan to see if I can get this semi to get down to a consistent under 1” group at the 100yard range.

Point being at least for me 3 out of the 5 22lr rifles I have a what I consider very accurate just above and just below MOA.

My other 22lr rifles are take downs and ones open sights. So I keep them to the 25 yard range. (Wish my club had a 50yard option)

Seems like there's luck involved in factory guns too, can get a great savage or a dud CZ. My own experience has been opposite, maybe just get the most easily customizable gun haha

 

[Mystic Precision]

If you are shooting 'BR' more for fun with the boys, consider the following

- ammo is and will always make or break your results. Regardless of the rifle, you need to shoot the highest grade ammo you can source Lapua, Eley and RWS. Odds of anything around $10/12 per box working with any degree of consistency is low.

- trigger pull weight. This is likely the most expensive choice you can make. If you are ok with 1.5 to 2lbs type pulls, rifle options can be plentiful and relatively cheap. If you want something in ounces, this limits action choices and often, the options are pricey.

- absolute accuracy. As you saw from the 100yd challenge, a wide range of rifles shoot in pretty much the same range of accuracy regardless of costs. So if you are ok with very good 'average' performance, factory rifles like the Savage mkII, CZ457 varmint (match chamber), Annies and clones are going to do just fine. If you really want true BR performance, that is a pretty specific rabbit hole and if budget is a concern, maybe not for you right now.

- tuner. add that to your budget. Hopefully, you have a rifle/ammo combo that will do what you want without this expense... but it can be very helpful even with the highest grades of ammo.

Best overall factory budget option - CZ457 MTR (match chamber only). I would look at the 16" version cause they come threaded. Factory rifles are a bit of luck but the CZ allows for easy barrel swaps if necessary.

If you can find a used older Annie 54 (and its newer variants), they can be superb shooters but again, a bit of trial and error.

Good luck on your journey...

Jerry

 

[Grantmac]

A chassis is a poor choice for BR, get a BR stock. They are available for all the good BR actions.

Most BR guns have barrels at least 20" or more.

Ammo lot sorting is life. If you want to buy and shoot then this isn't the game for you. Stick to airguns since their lot to lot consistency is far better.

 

[thump_rrr]

Don’t forget that in Canada we can get the Match chamber on the At-One also which is available in a 20” barrel that is also threaded.
In the USA they don’t have the match chamber on the At-One and it is only brought in as a 16” or 24”.

 

[Hitzy]

I have a few heavy barrel 22's that are common run of the mill sort of thing, but only one I consider really purpose built for 22 bench rest type shooting. It's a single shot, dual lug, ultra light trigger, fast lock time, came with it's own barrel tuner, it's big, heavy, and it shoots really good. Not a lot of them made but I've seen a few around.

 

[grauhanen]

Thank you all for taking time with me.
Yes I browsed "the currently active 100 yard challenge thread" and this is why I decided I would like to join it with great confidence...I just need a 22 rifle. I may even ask them if they would accept my 100M airgun cards
I was competing in archery long range shooting for almost two decades and travelled couple countries, but I got some surgeries and I had to stop drawing the bow.
So I started training for competition "long ranges" with airguns but the BS Covid rendered that my plan useless as well, also the economy is heading to downhill and travelling away for tournaments is just nonsense today.
At least I have several ranges at my club and people are fantastic.

What are your expectations or goals for .22LR performance at 100 yards? This is an important question if good suggestions or recommendations regarding what rifle you might consider getting.

Of course, many shooters will say they want the best performance for the money. Everyone does. Depending on the performance level in mind, some rifles may not be as likely to achieve them as others.

The next question is what are you willing to pay? If modest performance is acceptable, then a modest budget can achieve that objective.

At the same time, however, it's important to understand that a top tier rifle will not guarantee top tier results. Ammo selection is crucial in achieving best performance. A great rifle will not turn ammo that isn't great into ammo that is. No rifle, no matter its make, can outshoot the ammo it's given. What's important is not the name on the ammo box or how much it costs.

What are the performance goals?

 

[BCBRAD]

I use a Tikka T1x, 20"bbl.

This is a stock rifle with a SWFA 10x scope and with CCI standard velocity ammo it will hold ~1" at 109 yds 10 shots, 80-85% hit probability on a 2" gong at 170 yds, low probability of hits on 4" gong at 219 yds.

I have several other Tikkas and can interchange stocks, trigger groups etc.

 

[.22LRGUY]

I use a Tikka T1x, 20"bbl.

This is a stock rifle with a SWFA 10x scope and with CCI standard velocity ammo it will hold ~1" at 109 yds 10 shots, 80-85% hit probability on a 2" gong at 170 yds, low probability of hits on 4" gong at 219 yds.

I have several other Tikkas and can interchange stocks, trigger groups etc.

^BCBRAD-I'm fighting the urge to suggest the same rifle, as I've had great results with mine. (great to me anyway) Trigger was very good from the factory, a very quick bit of TLC with Yo-Dave's product=great trigger.

I'm following this thread, and can't help but think that a "starter" 22LR is where the OP needs to focus his/her efforts. Not discounting the expertise of the people posting, but the nature of the OP's questions suggests to me that perhaps a good factory/off-the-shelf bolt action might be a good place to start. We all see these questions through the lens of our own experiences, so my advice could be seriously flawed. However, reading the OP's comments and then imagining the same person shopping for barrel tuners..?

BTW, I'm only seriously considering the barrel tuner question myself, and I've been at it enthusiastically for more than 3 decades. I'm sure that if competition or bragging rights mattered more to me, I'd have crossed that bridge sooner. lol Like allot of things tied to this sport=the more I read about it, the more I realize how little I know.

 

[bigHUN]

..........What are the performance goals?

I shoot BR 100 meters with an airgun for 2-3 years, OK when too much crowd at 100 meter range I go shooting at 50.

Through all my competition years I learned that there is no repeatable "best performance" without doing a homework first. Also we don't chose the pellets/bullets but the barrel does.

I wash and lube my pellets, weight sort, head sort, head and skirt re-size to bore, and I just did not do roll testing. And I am ready to repeat the preparation exercise with 22 ammunition as well.
My airgun FX Impact I learned to take it apart and put all back with "closed eyes" and the tune it back to a MOA.
That airgun is capable of doing consistent MOA at 100 meters if I do my part.
Now, talking MOA or subMOA in a calm day and absolutely no wind or other elements to mess with and the gun is clamped on a one-piece-rest, shooting 50-60 shots strings.

This what performance I am expecting from a 22 rimfire as well, a consistent sub MOA capable barrel at 100 meters. If the barrel is capable of doing it I will find the ammunition what that barrel likes the most.

Btw, I have a barrel tunner on my airgun, it works it tightens the groups. But to get there the gun must be tuned to a 95% performance and the tuner does the very last 5%.

 

[OkayShooter]

I shoot BR 100 meters with an airgun for 2-3 years, OK when too much crowd at 100 meter range I go shooting at 50.

Through all my competition years I learned that there is no repeatable "best performance" without doing a homework first. Also we don't chose the pellets/bullets but the barrel does.

I wash and lube my pellets, weight sort, head sort, head and skirt re-size to bore, and I just did not do roll testing. And I am ready to repeat the preparation exercise with 22 ammunition as well.
My airgun FX Impact I learned to take it apart and put all back with "closed eyes" and the tune it back to a MOA.
That airgun is capable of doing consistent MOA at 100 meters if I do my part.
Now, talking MOA or subMOA in a calm day and absolutely no wind or other elements to mess with and the gun is clamped on a one-piece-rest, shooting 50-60 shots strings.

This what performance I am expecting from a 22 rimfire as well, a consistent sub MOA capable barrel at 100 meters. If the barrel is capable of doing it I will find the ammunition what that barrel likes the most.

Btw, I have a barrel tunner on my airgun, it works it tightens the groups. But to get there the gun must be tuned to a 95% performance and the tuner does the very last 5%.

Then get yourself a 64 or 54.. If you are accustom to max accuracy. As most Anschutz will do sub MOA, even my 600$ Anschutz 64 Silhouette with a Tasco 6-32x44 scope. I had 1 flier, but 9 shots were 0.665" at 100.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I shoot BR 100 meters with an airgun for 2-3 years, OK when too much crowd at 100 meter range I go shooting at 50.

Through all my competition years I learned that there is no repeatable "best performance" without doing a homework first. Also we don't chose the pellets/bullets but the barrel does.

I wash and lube my pellets, weight sort, head sort, head and skirt re-size to bore, and I just did not do roll testing. And I am ready to repeat the preparation exercise with 22 ammunition as well.
My airgun FX Impact I learned to take it apart and put all back with "closed eyes" and the tune it back to a MOA.
That airgun is capable of doing consistent MOA at 100 meters if I do my part.
Now, talking MOA or subMOA in a calm day and absolutely no wind or other elements to mess with and the gun is clamped on a one-piece-rest, shooting 50-60 shots strings.

This what performance I am expecting from a 22 rimfire as well, a consistent sub MOA capable barrel at 100 meters. If the barrel is capable of doing it I will find the ammunition what that barrel likes the most.

Btw, I have a barrel tunner on my airgun, it works it tightens the groups. But to get there the gun must be tuned to a 95% performance and the tuner does the very last 5%.

Thanks for giving us your background info. As a long time reloader for high levels of LR accuarcy and performance, I can tell you, rimfire is going to be disappointing. You have almost no control over what you chamber and all the physical sorting isn't going to help. Testing highest quality ammo to find good lots is the only venue you have and even the best you find, will likely still have outliers.... at distance.

Just the way rimfire ammo is made. Rule of thumb - the higher the price, the fewer the flyers... within the variations of lots.

Saying that, I love rimfire because of its simplicity... and I just manage expectations. I compete in LR PRS where the targets are physically generous vs the distances BUT the distances are ginormous vs that little cartridge/bullet. The challenge for me is finding a consistent cone of accuracy and driving that cone onto a target way the heck out there.... even when the winds are howling.

And a hit on steel... is a hit regardless of where it landed vs the previous hit. I have tried paper punching with rimfire and would not want to do that as a sport... way too frustrating but if you scale your targets accordingly and just play to the limits of your ammo, it's all good fun.

Unless you have some really deep pockets, the goal of sub MOA at 100m is going to be quite a challenge. Costs is highest in your ammo... and I really don't think you will easily find rimfire match ammo that will average sub MOA at 100m. However, expand your goals to 1.25 MOA and suddenly, alot of stuff can work. 1.5moa at 100m, simple.

And when you reach out to 200yds, likely approach 2 moa if not fatter. NOTE - you will on occasion get a hero group that is really tight. However, try and do that 5 times in a row and I doubt it repeats... at least, I have not seen it in my testing... and I count every shot.

Manage expectations and you will be fine... why dropping massive amounts of money into a rimfire isn't showing the same payback that it does in centerfire rifles. Ammo will always be your limiting factor.

Jerry

 

[bigHUN]

...I can tell you, rimfire is going to be disappointing....Just the way rimfire ammo is made....... why dropping massive amounts of money into a rimfire isn't showing the same payback that it does in centerfire rifles.

As a semi retired I prepared myself during years so many hobby's and activities that no two days in a week I am repeating myself. For this same reason I am reluctant to go for centerfire only because I cannot add one more hobby to my timetable for reloading. Sorting pellets is already a big stress, now to start realoading bullets as well that would be too much for a stress level.
Shooting is shooting, right?
10K high quality pellets (not some walymart or canadiantire garbage) costs about $550+tax. That is maybe a 10-15% of a cost from centerfire.
And this why I am shooting airgun pellets 250-300 a day each visit to my gunclub.

I collected a huge selection of diabolo's this year and tested them extensively, so far a best performer up to 50 meters is this one below. Now, I must say that my Streloc is saying that the flattest trajectory is between 44-27 meters, for this reason I am sighting in @ 40 M and printing my scope tapes for quick distance change instead of having it on card.

We can see from picture below, this is a same .22 barrel and same 21 grain pellet, I am changing the pressure and dwell timing = that is your primer amount and power.
These are all 8 shot group - change - 8 shot group and looking for tightest.

View attachment 626400
View attachment 626401

So far the best performer from 5-6 different brands, and maybe ten different weights I have tested this summer. Unfortunately the max range is up to 50 meters and beyond that the wind is affecting badly. I have heavier 25, 34 grains, but that SOFB doesn't want to cooperate with that my barrel no matter what I do.
I can get similar results at 100 meters only with the other gun my FX Impact .25 cal and 35gr pellet or 37gr slugs.

 

[OkayShooter]

As a semi retired I prepared myself during years so many hobby's and activities that no two days in a week I am repeating myself. For this same reason I am reluctant to go for centerfire only because I cannot add one more hobby to my timetable for reloading. Sorting pellets is already a big stress, now to start realoading bullets as well that would be too much for a stress level.
Shooting is shooting, right?
10K high quality pellets (not some walymart or canadiantire garbage) costs about $550+tax. That is maybe a 10-15% of a cost from centerfire.
And this why I am shooting airgun pellets 250-300 a day each visit to my gunclub.

I collected a huge selection of diabolo's this year and tested them extensively, so far a best performer up to 50 meters is this one below. Now, I must say that my Streloc is saying that the flattest trajectory is between 44-27 meters, for this reason I am sighting in @ 40 M and printing my scope tapes for quick distance change instead of having it on card.

We can see from picture below, this is a same .22 barrel and same 21 grain pellet, I am changing the pressure and dwell timing = that is your primer amount and power.
These are all 8 shot group - change - 8 shot group and looking for tightest.

View attachment 626400
View attachment 626401

So far the best performer from 5-6 different brands, and maybe ten different weights I have tested this summer. Unfortunately the max range is up to 50 meters and beyond that the wind is affecting badly. I have heavier 25, 34 grains, but that SOFB doesn't want to cooperate with that my barrel no matter what I do.
I can get similar results at 100 meters only with the other gun my FX Impact .25 cal and 35gr pellet or 37gr slugs.

Is this a rimfire or airgun thread? There are way more variables that effect 22LR accuracy than your airgun.

You won't be getting 10K quality 22LR for under 5000$

 

[Mystic Precision]

As a semi retired I prepared myself during years so many hobby's and activities that no two days in a week I am repeating myself. For this same reason I am reluctant to go for centerfire only because I cannot add one more hobby to my timetable for reloading. Sorting pellets is already a big stress, now to start realoading bullets as well that would be too much for a stress level.
Shooting is shooting, right?
10K high quality pellets (not some walymart or canadiantire garbage) costs about $550+tax. That is maybe a 10-15% of a cost from centerfire.
And this why I am shooting airgun pellets 250-300 a day each visit to my gunclub.

I collected a huge selection of diabolo's this year and tested them extensively, so far a best performer up to 50 meters is this one below. Now, I must say that my Streloc is saying that the flattest trajectory is between 44-27 meters, for this reason I am sighting in @ 40 M and printing my scope tapes for quick distance change instead of having it on card.

We can see from picture below, this is a same .22 barrel and same 21 grain pellet, I am changing the pressure and dwell timing = that is your primer amount and power.
These are all 8 shot group - change - 8 shot group and looking for tightest.

View attachment 626400
View attachment 626401

So far the best performer from 5-6 different brands, and maybe ten different weights I have tested this summer. Unfortunately the max range is up to 50 meters and beyond that the wind is affecting badly. I have heavier 25, 34 grains, but that SOFB doesn't want to cooperate with that my barrel no matter what I do.
I can get similar results at 100 meters only with the other gun my FX Impact .25 cal and 35gr pellet or 37gr slugs.

You cant really do that with rimfire... just buy best grades, test lots, maybe use a tuner... it is what it is.

wrt to costs, you are easily getting to 40 cents per bang... more if you count the total used to test and cull. I recently bought some 'olympic' grade stuff that had been sitting around for a while (note, do not buy any ammo that has been on the shelf for a while). All in 80cents per bang and it had flyers too.

If you want to get into rimfire at a high level, you are not all that far from mid grade centerfire wrt to cost and accuracy. I like the low recoil, noise and no reloading. Min of gong is all I need and it is possible with moderate time and effort. And that lets me use very accessible and affordable gear.

is it cheap? NOPE...

but it is cheaper then loading for top level F class... which has gotten left kidney expensive.

Jerry

 

[grauhanen]

I shoot BR 100 meters with an airgun for 2-3 years, OK when too much crowd at 100 meter range I go shooting at 50.

Through all my competition years I learned that there is no repeatable "best performance" without doing a homework first. Also we don't chose the pellets/bullets but the barrel does.


That airgun is capable of doing consistent MOA at 100 meters if I do my part.
Now, talking MOA or subMOA in a calm day and absolutely no wind or other elements to mess with and the gun is clamped on a one-piece-rest, shooting 50-60 shots strings.

This what performance I am expecting from a 22 rimfire as well, a consistent sub MOA capable barrel at 100 meters. If the barrel is capable of doing it I will find the ammunition what that barrel likes the most.

Btw, I have a barrel tunner on my airgun, it works it tightens the groups. But to get there the gun must be tuned to a 95% performance and the tuner does the very last 5%.

You make a good observation about the challenge of repeatable best performance in air rifle shooting. It's at least equally if not more true of .22LR, especially as distance grows to 100 and even moreso beyond.

One reason is that, as Jerry indicates, really good .22LR ammo is not common.

With careful pellet selection (the shooter choosing based on what the barrel does), a good PCP such as the FX will yield an ES (and SD) that's much better than anything that can be typically found with .22LR ammo. When a shooter finds .22LR match ammo with an ES of 30 fps he can consider himself fortunate. Ammo with a smaller ES exists but is not easily found.

For the best chance of shooting for consistent MOA or better results at 100 yards with a .22LR, in addition to good ammo, a very good rifle is needed. Relatively inexpensive mass produced rifles such as those made by CZ or Tikka (to refer to some suggestions made above) are unlikely to be able to do the job. As the shooter of an FX PCP, you are aware that quality counts. Be prepared to spend "FX" money on a good quality rimfire rifle for the best chance to achieve your performance goals.

 

[bigHUN]

....As the shooter of an FX PCP, you are aware that quality counts. Be prepared to spend "FX" money on a good quality rimfire rifle for the best chance to achieve your performance goals.

Ah sorry, I didn't said anywhere that I am expecting a best gun for $1-1.5K or I need it asap
I said if I don't have a money for a full gun at once I would buy it in parts how the $ arriving I would collect all the parts maybe in couple months for next season. (in brackets I just assume I will collect a high performer piece by piece). Also following that logic why me to buy a furniture stock if I would most likely throw it away because all will be clamped on my existing rail.
I know that as well that there is a huge difference between how a starter $1K and $3K guns comparing look or performanse, but I would expect a less difference between a high priced $5K and $7K. Like with everything, be that a bicycle or cars or surround speakers or cameras ... name it.
I just don't know firearms and I don't want to pay like a moron the top dollars if a 75% is way better performer.

Back to buying the 22 and collecting it in parts... Would that be a vise decision?